Replacing Drums and Shoes on 69 Dart

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1969VADart

1969VADart

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I have continued to have problems with one of the front brakes on my 69 Dart GT. I have adjusted it multiple times, but I keep having intermittent brake dragging and sticking. I know that the bulk of the problem is in the front passenger side wheel. I can adjust it and it works for awhile and then it goes back to the same problem. So I have decided to just replace the front drums and shoes. While I haven't taken it apart yet, I figured I would ask what brakes are likely on my Dart. The 69 service manual says that V8 model cars came with 10" drums on all four corners. Does that sound right? When I look at Year One, I mainly see 10x2 1/4 drums, but shoes that are 2 1/4 or 2 1/2. I would appreciate any insight from FABO before I start disassembling and buying parts. Thanks.
 
J Glenn said:
Dumb question: are the backing plates warn (where the shoes ride?)
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I have to admit, I have not inspected them closely. Each time I have had an issue with sticking, I have just pulled the wheel and adjusted them. To be honest, I believe the drums are the original drums on the car. I imagine the shoes were replaced at one time. I guess I was just fed up with adjusting them and figured I would just install new parts.
 
1969VADart said:
I guess I was just fed up with adjusting them and figured I would just install new parts.
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the back plates aren't normally a part that you can easily find. But they do get gooved. And that sometimes causes sticking. It did for me. I had to take the back plates off, weld in to fill the groove, then machine it down flat again. (Some people just use the grinder)
 
J Glenn said:
the back plates aren't normally a part that you can easily find. But they do get gooved. And that sometimes causes sticking. It did for me. I had to take the back plates off, weld in to fill the groove, then machine it down flat again. (Some people just use the grinder)
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Appreciate the insight. I will take a look at them when I pull them down. In the meantime, I still have the question about the sizes for drums and shoes
 
Chrysler Master Tech series had a booklet and filmstrip which may give you some more things to look for
Drum Brake Service Highlights (Session 260) from the Master Technician's Service Conference

Look at the locations of wear on the lining material.
For the shoes, the metal 'frames' should have an FMSI number stamped in them. That's the standardized number for that shoe.
1968 introduced shoes with tabs to reduce the wear on the backing plates.
1969 introduced a new selfadjustment system and reversed the direction of the adjusters compeared to previous years.
That's about all I can think for tips at the moment. The booklet covers most things mechanical.
Hydraulic issues could be collapsed or plugged hose.
 
The dimensions are in the back of the chapter on Brakes in the service manual. If you don't have a 1969 service manual, get yourself one. Nothing like info direct from the source. There's still occassional errors and ommissons but the most reliable source you can get. Service bulletins have been collected and posted at The 1970 Hamtramck Registry Library Page (1965 - 1969)
 
Mattax said:
The dimensions are in the back of the chapter on Brakes in the service manual. If you don't have a 1969 service manual, get yourself one. Nothing like info direct from the source. There's still occassional errors and ommissons but the most reliable source you can get. Service bulletins have been collected and posted at The 1970 Hamtramck Registry Library Page (1965 - 1969)
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Right. I have a 69 service manual for my car. That is why I am asking for clarity. It seems to suggest that the drums are 10 x 2 1/2 for all V8 models. I was just curious if that was correct. When I looked on Year One, all I found were 10 x 2 1/4 drums but 2 1/2 and 2 1/4 shoes.
 
I would call the nominal size 10 x 2.5 for the front.
The rear looks like its the same as used with the disk brake option, nominally 10 x 1.75
I happened to know the rear takes 331 shoes.
upload_2020-4-12_15-34-40.png


Can't think of any reason to buy shoes from year one.
Not unless they had original p/n and that's what you wanted.
 
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Mattax said:
I would call the nominal size 10 x 2.5 for the front.
The rear looks like its the same as used with the disk brake option, nominally 10 x 1.75
I happened to know the rear takes 331 shoes.
View attachment 1715506293

Can't think of any reason to buy shoes from year one.
Not unless they had original p/n and that's what you wanted.
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So the drums that Year One sells would essentially be the incorrect size? Where would you recommend buying the brake parts from to get the correct sizes? I note the recommendation in the next post but I have seen opinions vary on the person.
 
1969VADart said:
So the drums that Year One sells would essentially be the incorrect size? Where would you recommend buying the brake parts from to get the correct sizes? I note the recommendation in the next post but I have seen opinions vary on the person.
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Depends on the car, but generally I start with parts stores and see what's available.
If I was in your shoes, and I have been, I pull the drums spray down the dust and assess everything first.
I only replace drums and disks if there's not enough thickness to have trued up. It took a little looking (calling) but I found an automotive machine shop about 40 minutes away that still does that.
Backing plates had grooves, so I've have had to weld and braze those and then grind down. On thronts it won't be so bad to remove and do those if needed. On the rear, the axle halfs have to be removed. I've tried doing them with the axles in. Doesn't come out as well if the weld build up is too high because there's nothing to reference when grinding and filing down.


On second thought, based on the description of your problem, I might start by bleeding the brakes. Once the drum is off that can't been done. So that's where I would start after maybe a quick visual check with the drum off and everything washed down. Then reinstall the drum and bleed.
 
If your trying to have the parts in hand before taking it apart IMHO that's a bad idea. You can take the tire off, take the hub off the spindle all in About 20 minutes, then you can measure everything and order the right parts
 
Mattax said:
Depends on the car, but generally I start with parts stores and see what's available.
If I was in your shoes, and I have been, I pull the drums spray down the dust and assess everything first.
I only replace drums and disks if there's not enough thickness to have trued up. It took a little looking (calling) but I found an automotive machine shop about 40 minutes away that still does that.
Backing plates had grooves, so I've have had to weld and braze those and then grind down. On thronts it won't be so bad to remove and do those if needed. On the rear, the axle halfs have to be removed. I've tried doing them with the axles in. Doesn't come out as well if the weld build up is too high because there's nothing to reference when grinding and filing down.


On second thought, based on the description of your problem, I might start by bleeding the brakes. Once the drum is off that can't been done. So that's where I would start after maybe a quick visual check with the drum off and everything washed down. Then reinstall the drum and bleed.
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The rear brakes don’t seem to be a problem. Have not noticed any sticking or unexplained noises from the rear. The issue is definitely in the front passenger side.
 
Dana67Dart said:
If your trying to have the parts in hand before taking it apart IMHO that's a bad idea. You can take the tire off, take the hub off the spindle all in About 20 minutes, then you can measure everything and order the right parts
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Agree and understand. I won’t buy anything before pulling it apart because it is easy enough to do. I just wanted to get some thoughts since it seemed to be all over the map when I searched FABO.

If I get a wild hair it might end up with disk brakes on the front.
 
I just did the scarebird conversion.
After doing a lemons rally with the 9” drums (tail of the dragon too)
If the Rona ever passes you can check out my darts brakes to see if you like them. I’m in fburg too
 
69moredoor said:
I just did the scarebird conversion.
After doing a lemons rally with the 9” drums (tail of the dragon too)
If the Rona ever passes you can check out my darts brakes to see if you like them. I’m in fburg too
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Would definitely like to check it out. How difficult was the conversion and where did you source the parts from? I honestly haven’t investigated that possibility with my Dart at this point, but it does occasionally cross my mind.
 
Got the brackets used on here and some other parts
Bought new rotors and hub rings from scarebird
Rock auto’d the rest
The 9” drums sucked and had to plan your stops
With the scarebird disks (manual disc m/c) it feels like stopping when towing a small trailer. A push where you need to keep more pressure than usual (when comparing to a new car)
 
Did you install the primary and secondary shoes in the correct position?
 
Just a thought - I had a 68 Dart, with rear brakes, that occasionally dragged . Drove me crazy. Brake lines were replaced, and that fixed the problem. I guess, that fluid was not returning properly.
 
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