273 rocker arms

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ir3333

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Are the any oiling mods necessary when using 273 adjustable rockers with hydraulic lifters?
A friend suggested by pre-loading the lifters the oiling hole is compromised?
 
You must banana groove the shaft. Otherwise, especially at idle you won’t get any oil between the rocker and the shaft and the rocker will grab the shaft.
 
If you use solid lifter pushrods with hydraulic lifters the pushrods are too short and all kinds of negative stuff happens .
 
i think you have that backwards.Solid cam 273's had 7.5" pushrods and are too long for hydraulic lifters.
 
YR...the oil hole in the new shafts i have is quite large and located right on the bottom where the pressure would be...but i'm thinking those rockers will only move 3/16 - 1/4 inch and should see enough oil.
Your thoughts?
 
Pretty sure the factory banana grooved the adjustable rocker shafts for a reason
I've used the whole assembly on multiple hydraulic camshafts and never had an issue. There are many articles on how much preload to set the adjustment to here or on the web.
 
no doubt the banana grooves will improve oiling, and additional holes in the rocker too.
But not all 273's had banana grooved rocker shafts. Anybody know if slant six rocker shafts were grooved those things run forever?
 
no doubt the banana grooves will improve oiling, and additional holes in the rocker too.
But not all 273's had banana grooved rocker shafts. Anybody know if slant six rocker shafts were grooved those things run forever?
So no emotions involved here so please don't get butt hurt but...
You started a post asking about this Then when people that know provide what your seeking you want to refute it That is your prerogative for sure free country and all that
but I'm guessing you have a semi-performance build in mind given you wish to maximize your camshaft thru an adjustable rocker setup

if you do actually have a six cylinder slug and it's a grocery gett'r then by all means use them as they are again your prerogative
but when your rocker train goes squeak squeak and turns blue please just look in the mirror for the answer "why".....
 
Grooving the shaft is easy with a dremel and a cutting disk, just smooth out the corners.TA shafts had diagonal grooves, 273 had straight cuts iirc. Mech and hydro pushrods are too far off to interchange. Just get the correct ones. You can cut down slant pushrods to use on 273 rockers, just remove the hardened round tips, cut to size and press the tips back in. They are captive once they are installed so they dont need to be uber tight in there but will press in snugly.

<<<PS I can't find an example of a straight cut now...>>>
 
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Yellow rose has posted on mods that need to be made to the rocker in addition to the ones on the shaft
is there a stickie
if not PM him
if no response I'll try and make a pass at the problem and solutions
I may have copied his comments in the 318 cam stickie (have fun)
pss I likle to use oil through the pushrods to oil the cups and balls
It looks like using cup adjusters and ball and ball end pushrods gives better geometry
YR and I both suggest that you use the strongest pushrods you can fit no matter the cam
 
All good info guys..tx.My engine is built and i made no modifications to the new stock shafts or rocker arms.A friend told me that i will be sorry and the modifications are necessary so thought i would ask on the forum.
As you know... i try to use logic and question most everything.
Now....who have used stock 273 adjustable rockers with standard shafts and how did they perform for you?
 
I've used after market ductile iron adjustable rockers on my bracket car motor with & without grooved shafts with no problems. A lot of it depends upon what you are going to use the motor for street, race, or combination. Mine is race only so I can't attest to street usage.
 
Grooving the shaft is easy with a dremel and a cutting disk, just smooth out the corners.TA shafts had diagonal grooves, 273 had straight cuts iirc. Mech and hydro pushrods are too far off to interchange. Just get the correct ones. You can cut down slant pushrods to use on 273 rockers, just remove the hardened round tips, cut to size and press the tips back in. They are captive once they are installed so they dont need to be uber tight in there but will press in snugly.
Cam a guy do that to the 273 pushrods? Pull them apart and shorten them.
 
Tx DR...we can all take a lesson from your response.
"This is what i used and this was the result"...Perfect!
 
In order to get the correct push rods you will need to get a push rod length checker. Measure all of the push rods with whatever cam, lifters & rockers you plan to run, & some light weight springs. From there you can order the correct push rods for your application.
 
I think solid lifters do not need grooves cuz of lash. hydraulic lifters constantly being loaded like the added grooves
 
The 273 I had lasted over 150,000 miles with little maintenance. Adjusted the valves when they got noisy. 2 bbl car with light springs? Decades ago.

273 adjustable rockers require a 273 rocker arm shaft. The holes in the shaft point to the carb base [on both sides]. I believe the banana groove only came from the factory on 340 six pack cars.
 
I would highly recommend using a banana grooved shaft with the factory iron rockers. Some reasons are mentioned above. Yellow Rose mentioned the rocker grabbing or sometimes called friction welding or galling. See last two pictures below of a damaged stock hydraulic rocker shaft without banana grooves from using the stock 273 rockers below. The higher the spring loads you have on your engine the more likely and quickly this will happen. As mentioned above a dedicated race car with high idle and limited run time at low RPM will extend the time this takes if at all.

I would suggest as the first choice in shafts for iron rocker arms is to use the factory 273 mechanical rocker arm shaft as there are other differences will point out. First the banana groove which was already discussed.

Second is a there is a second oil hole drilled for the push rod cup which provides pressurized oil directly to the cup to lubricate and cool another critical friction point.

Third the two oil holes in the mechanical rocker 273 shafts are smaller that the one larger hole in the stock hydraulic or aftermarket one hole shaft.

Fourth if I recall correctly is the mechanical 273 shafts have the bottom oil hole and the banana groove clocked slightly towards the valve springs rather than straight down to optimize the oiling where the load is when the rocker is in the lift cycle. Something like the minute hand on a clock when it is at 6:35.

Some aftermarket rockers have an internal groove around the inside to feed pressurized oil to the pushrod cup oiling hole in the rocker arm - Hughes for example and the Crane iron rocker arms. The stock 273 rockers do not have this groove. Chrysler added the additional hole is in the shaft instead.

Will the pushrod cups get oil without the groove in the rocker arm or added oiling hole in the shaft. Yes it will get some but it will not be as effective as a second hole in the shaft.

So for me my preference when I use mechanical rocker arms, regardless of application, street or race, is to always use banana grooves shafts and a shaft with an oiling hole for the pushrod. If the rocker has an internal oil groove in the rocker body to get oil to the pushrod cup then I may consider shafts that have a banana groove and no additional oil hole in the shaft for the pushrod but it will depend on the application. I tend to like the additional insurance of the additional pushrod oiling hole in the shaft.

I also added a couple shots some 273 mechanical rocker shaft to show the two oiling holes and the oiling hole sizes.

C04265B1-DBAB-4A98-B8E1-C4D4A500C453.jpeg
04F19537-A47F-4180-8AB1-047E9D55A434.jpeg
E0E9350A-297E-4E5D-8289-0B52A768B19B.jpeg
1C56CA3A-151C-40B7-A5FF-592E63088988.jpeg
55294599-DCF5-4A4F-A7B8-D09D3ECCEFAB.jpeg
C3EC76A3-DCE2-4AC2-854C-6363FF8486D9.jpeg
91030B9B-3AD7-4E22-81C0-203B5A5EAC48.jpeg
 
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ok, the 273 came with angled grooves cut in the shafts from the factory. my original 273 dart came that way, it had 25,000 miles on it never been apart. they were never cut straight.
 
/6's are not a comparable example: all solid lifters and adjustable rockers 'til the last few years. So no need for the groove in the shaft. But they had grooves in the rockers for oil distribution from the single oil hole in the shaft for many years for both types, and when they went to the hydraulics in the last few years, the rocker grooves changed a bit.
Hydraulic vs. Mechanical cam valve train differences - Slant Six Forum
 
I dug out an original 273 rocker shaft from my scrap pile and see the additional oiling holes as well as the grooves.Also talked to a few guys that have run them with standard shafts and had no problems, but you guys have convinced me to use the 273 style for the additional oiling benefits.
Thanks to all....now the search for good used or new shafts begins
 
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