CAM AND MAIN BEARINGS SHOT

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Franko

FABO Gold Member
FABO Gold Member
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I had a 340 short block rebuilt in 2018. I pulled the engine this winter because the rear main seal and the timing cover seal leaked and a bad lifter knocked occasionally, for a few minutes after startup. I thought I might as well get the cam lobes checked since I already had the 340 torn apart. I noticed that the cam bearings looked scorched… kind of bluish or dark on the bottom. There was only 2,500 miles on this rebuild.


I checked all the main bearings which showed about the same wear and dark areas. You can see in one picture that a small area of copper shows through. I checked a few rod bearings and they looked fine. I plan on replacing the cam and main bearings.


This summer the engine overheated. The gauge did not bury and probably maxed out at 2/3 of its travel, by the time I shut it down. Some antifreeze and steam came out of the radiator overflow for a few minutes.


When I originally installed this engine I primed it with a drill and I think it had about 60 lbs of pressure on the gauge, that I temporarily installed. But the 69 Swinger only has an idiot light, which I believed worked properly. So, I don’t know what the actual oil pressure was during daily drives.


I temporarily reinstalled the oil pump and oil pan and replenished the oil. I primed the oil pump and a small flow of oil did come out of the holes in the bottom of the bearings. I reinstalled the cam and rotated the cam and the crank in small increments, but no oil came out of the pedestal in each head and it showed no oil pressure on the gauge . But there was a massive stream of oil pouring out from the oil galley behind the No. 8 exhaust lifter bore. And there was no oil in the other bank’s lifter bores. I didn’t think at the time, to reinstall the lifters and see what effect that had. I expect that this is the normal oiling; where the oil goes from the oil pump to the oil galley on the passenger side and is distributed to the rest of the block, if the lifters are in place. Can this be confirmed?


Does anybody have any words of wisdom on the extreme bearing wear? Thanks!

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Could be clearance, lack of oil.
You said there was no dry start up, that you primed it...so..

One problem 340's have is the main bearings oil holes do not match the blocks oiling holes. I open them up to the blocks passage size which is bigger and over to the pass side a hair. Another one is losing a lifter from a bent or broken push rod...that happens and th oil psi dips immediately and the rest suffers.
I see you have the full groove front cam bearing that allows more oil out the cam thrust plate. Are those full groove mains too? I run the same, still needs corrected at oil passages to line up to not starve it higher rpm. The oil goes through the pass side lifter galley and down to those mains..then at the no.1 main it feeds over to the drivers side lifter bank. I think running the no.1 main tighter than the rest is a good idea to keep the psi loss minimized. Not tight per say, just tighter than the rest. I'd run .0022- .0024 and the no.1 at .0019 for instance. I set my stroker
Up that way and it had the best psi of all of them so far, even after I shattered a piston and cylinder wall at barona speedway.. the bearings looked perfect...never starved of oil and I didnt even prime it at start up.
Look close at everything...check all plugs, line up the main bearings.
That's my wisdom.
 
When you had the rebuild done, were the crank saddles & the camshaft bores checked for straightness? It looks to me like core shift with the bearing wear in the pictures.
 
I left something out...
the oil pumps relief valve could have been stuck open from debris ,delivering low pressure 'as low as 20 psi even at say..5000 rpm...and that idiot light won't turn on till it gets below 12 or 8 psi iirr...so you wouldn't know you were starved for oil...now couple that with mis aligned oil passages at the main bearings...and the bleed off else where like at the no.1 cam.
 
core shift can happen at the casting foundry - then the block gets machined straight - if there is a ton of shift it will not "clean" at machining and get scrapped -
 
This summer the engine overheated. The gauge did not bury and probably maxed out at 2/3 of its travel, by the time I shut it down. Some antifreeze and steam came out of the radiator overflow for a few minutes.


When I originally installed this engine I primed it with a drill and I think it had about 60 lbs of pressure on the gauge, that I temporarily installed. But the 69 Swinger only has an idiot light, which I believed worked properly. So, I don’t know what the actual oil pressure was during daily drives.


I temporarily reinstalled the oil pump and oil pan and replenished the oil. I primed the oil pump and a small flow of oil did come out of the holes in the bottom of the bearings. I reinstalled the cam and rotated the cam and the crank in small increments, but no oil came out of the pedestal in each head and it showed no oil pressure on the gauge . But there was a massive stream of oil pouring out from the oil galley behind the No. 8 exhaust lifter bore. And there was no oil in the other bank’s lifter bores. I didn’t think at the time, to reinstall the lifters and see what effect that had. I expect that this is the normal oiling; where the oil goes from the oil pump to the oil galley on the passenger side and is distributed to the rest of the block, if the lifters are in place. Can this be confirmed?


Does anybody have any words of wisdom on the extreme bearing wear? Thanks!
The oil testing described above without the lifters installed is totally invalid. The oil from the pump/filter enters the back of the passenger side lifter gallery and if the lifters are not there, then all the oil dumps out the bottom of the lifter bores. So that testing regrettably did not tell you anything.

IMHO the main bearing wear is not what I would call extreme, but is more than I would expect for 2500 miles. No way to know why for sure... could be infrequent startups, could be the mains bores being off a bit, and all the other things suggested like clearances. The cam bearings could have been too tight to start with; we don't know how the cam and bearings were checked at installation.

Hard to say on the 'overheat'.. the gauge movement is not out of the expected range; and the overflow could be a weak rad cap. But no way to really know without good instrumentation.

Sorry to not be more help.... but the why of bearing wear is as shown could be from quite a variety of issues.
 
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He said no.8, plug is behind no.7 lifter bore.
Hope its there.

He'd have one hell of a oil leak if it were missing
 
Could you check con rod #7 for it's orientation, to me it looks like the "wide" portion of the rod is pared up with the adjacent #8 rod. Tangs of rods should be outboard, #7 just looks backwards!
 
But there was a massive stream of oil pouring out from the oil galley behind the No. 8 exhaust lifter bore.
The OP made the above observation .... passenger side gallery not driver's side.... with no lifters in the block, of course all the oil is going to pour out of the lifter gallery at the back of the passenger side! LOL
 
maybe with lifters in the block the problem is the driver side oil gallery rear plug is forgotten - it happens often from time to time on various engine rebuilds
 
Those bearings are far from shot.
Looks like it didn’t have enough oil pressure at some point? After priming oil pump, did you roll the engine over with no plugs, and verify oil pressure?
What did you use for an assembly lube? Or did someone else assemble?
Double check everything and reassemble it with fresh bearings and rings, new seals.
 
I didn’t read every post but: the main caps with the bearings in them have the upper bearing with the hole in it. That should be in the block. See ur number 5 cap, bearing in right. Only 1/2 has the hole. So there is ur oiling problem. How many more are like that? U need a new builder. Dam, I can’t believe he did that crap. Kim
 
I didn’t read every post but: the main caps with the bearings in them have the upper bearing with the hole in it. That should be in the block. See ur number 5 cap, bearing in right. Only 1/2 has the hole. So there is ur oiling problem. How many more are like that? U need a new builder. Dam, I can’t believe he did that crap. Kim

they could be fully grooved main bearing...as the rear bearing does not have an oil hole in the upper half ...but the other journals do...
 
core shift can happen at the casting foundry - then the block gets machined straight - if there is a ton of shift it will not "clean" at machining and get scrapped -
Core shift means the sand in the core box shifts while the iron is poured and makes a bad casting... you are correct that it can only happen when the molten metal is poured.
 
There is a lot of talent floating around this website that just by going from pictures can really help you out. But we need pictures and the more the better. It’s not like we are there giving it the old 15 minute in person look n see. Also why do guy trust a 40-50 year old idiot light for oil pressure. It kills me to see that much flashing clinging to a block on a fresh rebuild but that’s me.
 
I bet most rebuilt engines if torn down in 2500 mile look like that. Normal IMO.
BUT engines do not get torn down that soon.....so no way to know for sure....
 
Following are some answers to your questions and some additional info :

When I first started this engine after the rebuild, I still had the oil pressure gauge hooked up. The oil pressure was fine and I immediately held the RPM between 2,000 and 2,500 for 3 ten minute cycles, as recommended by the Mopar Performance cam instructions. I used break-in oil and immediately thereafter, I changed the oil to Penngrade 1, 10W40, with zinc.

In case one manufacturer of bearings is better than another: the cam bearings are listed on the invoice as Durabond PD-16. They have a groove around the first cam bearing, but there are no grooves on the rest of the cam bearings. The main bearings are listed as EPB 12-963P (I haven’t been able to find out who the manufacturer is). Both main bearing halves are identical, with the hole and the groove. The rod bearings are listed as King CR805Si. I plan on having new cam bearings installed. I will install new main bearings. Any recommendations on the best bearings? Also, why would I need new rings when these rings only have 2,500 miles on them?

I don’t know if the engine builder checked the crank saddles and camshaft bores for straightness. He did tell me he used Clevite Assembly Lube 2800-B2.

I ordered plastigage and I plan to check the main and rod bearing tolerances. Then I am once again going to reinstall the oil pump, oil pan, oil filter, cam and lifters and check the oil pressure with the drill.

I bought this 340 a few ago from a guy that said that it was in a couple different Mopars, then it sat for decades. When I tore it apart, it had all the original bearings, dated December 68. As I recall, all the bearings looked fine. I should note that one cylinder was re-sleeved, because water must have entered the cylinder, because the piston was rusted in.

The connecting rods are installed correctly, with the tangs outboard. My radiator cap is 14 lbs. I believe 16 lbs. is correct, but my seal was leaking a bit on a freshly rebuilt water pump.

I just ran across the following Forum when I looked up oil galley plugs that discusses all the plugs that should have been installed:
I’ve also attached pictures of all the oil galley plugs in this engine. Did I photograph them all?

Thanks for all of your comments. It is much appreciated.

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This is what i mean when i say 340's have an issue with the bearings.
Whether half or full groove..the oil holes are too small and are only partially exposed
Here is a pic with red dots placed as bearing sit installed. They sit over the intersection of the cam and main feed and are smaller and misaligned. The misalignment is the main reason they need to be slotted. The 318 and 360 have a counter bore/bathtub at the oil feeds..so there is no misalignment and or partial blockage.

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