1973-74 B-body vs 1973-76 A-body spindle

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JGC403

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Is there a difference between the Disc brake spindles and the upper control arm on the 73-74 B-body vs the 73-76 A-body disc spindles? I'm looking at the Disc brake conversion kit for an A-body from Master Power Brakes and there kit comes with B-body spindles and upper control arms. I already have a set of 73-76 A-body disc brake spindles and I'm getting tubular upper control arms from Firm Feel. If they are the same I'll see if they I can order a kit and they could leave those parts out and hopefully save a couple bucks.

1968 Plymouth Barracuda Rallye Series Front
 
If you have late A body disc knuckles and you have Firm Feel upper arms then you do not need anything from Master Power Brakes. Just go to Doctor Diff and order the remaining parts that you need. You can buy the rotors at your local auto parts store or from Rock Auto. Either get 11 inch or 11.75 inch if you have 15 inch wheels. Doctor Diff has the 11.75 caliper adapters and the correct rear hung style calipers as well as the correct hoses.
 
I like the 4 piston calipers in this kit. Also the rotors are 1.007" thick, that is one downside to the Wilwood kit. There rotors are only 0.81" thick.
 
Is there a difference between the Disc brake spindles and the upper control arm on the 73-74 B-body vs the 73-76 A-body disc spindles? I'm looking at the Disc brake conversion kit for an A-body from Master Power Brakes and there kit comes with B-body spindles and upper control arms. I already have a set of 73-76 A-body disc brake spindles and I'm getting tubular upper control arms from Firm Feel. If they are the same I'll see if they I can order a kit and they could leave those parts out and hopefully save a couple bucks.

1968 Plymouth Barracuda Rallye Series Front

Those kit do not come with “73-74 B-body” upper control arms. An A-body upper control arm is unique in length, configuration, and A-arm leg separation distance.

An A-body upper control arm will be a large ball joint (73-76 Disc & 10” drum A-body) OR small ball joint (63-72 disc & 10” drum)

A larger taper ball joint is needed for 73-76 A-body disk spindle and the taller 73-up B/F/M/J spindle

The only things unique in the MP kit is the caliper adapter and that caliper made by whomever with MP engraved on it.

I’d buy Doctor Diff stuff that’s engineered for Mopars by Mopar people.
 
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Is there a difference between the Disc brake spindles and the upper control arm on the 73-74 B-body vs the 73-76 A-body disc spindles? I'm looking at the Disc brake conversion kit for an A-body from Master Power Brakes and there kit comes with B-body spindles and upper control arms. I already have a set of 73-76 A-body disc brake spindles and I'm getting tubular upper control arms from Firm Feel. If they are the same I'll see if they I can order a kit and they could leave those parts out and hopefully save a couple bucks.

1968 Plymouth Barracuda Rallye Series Front

$1,829!!!! :eek:

For what amounts to a plain old 73+ Mopar disk swap with aftermarket calipers? Good grief!!!

autoxcuda is right on, that entire kit is nothing but a reproduction 73+ mopar disk brake conversion, except with the stock 73+ calipers replaced with those 4 piston calipers and brackets.

You can get all the same parts from DoctorDiff except for those calipers and brackets. And you could get the Stage 2 plus kit with comparable parts to that MP kit for $980 without the UCA's, add the UCA's for $198, and have everything for $1,178 with a larger rotor. Not to mention you can find the brake pads for the wilwoods most places, who knows where else you can get those brake pads for the MP brakes.

Although, if they're like their other kits they're just knock offs of something else. Check this out. Their "standard" kit. This literally just a 73+ brake conversion using all reproduction stock parts. The rotor spec has to be wrong, that's a factory caliper and bracket. So that's just an OE 73+ conversion they're selling for $1,039.
https://www.mpbrakes.com/front-brak...nt.asp?catid=5F380D95CBEF4C368B1F71CF711A16D2

You can get all the same parts from Cass (DoctorDiff) for $728.
10.95" Front Disc Brake Kit (Stage 1)

Mopar Upper Control Arms
 
Those kit do not come with “73-74 B-body” upper control arms. An A-body upper control arm is unique in length, configuration, and A-arm leg separation distance.

The Guy on the chat on their website said that the Spindles and the upper control arms are 73-74 B-body.
 
Upper arms from a BBody definitely will NOT work on an Abody… the 73 and up BBody upper arms wont work on a 72 and down BBody either.

The spindles however will work for all A and B bodies (Abodies will require the 73-76 upper control arms for the spindles to work on 72 and prior Abodies)
 
The Guy on the chat on their website said that the Spindles and the upper control arms are 73-74 B-body.

Just reading the descriptions on the website it’s clear that whoever is writing their descriptions has no blinking clue about Mopars. Or brakes. The fact that they’re selling straight up stock parts at the prices they’re asking is crazy. Clearly their “tech support” guy on their chat isn’t any better. Doesn’t bode well.

I wonder whose 4 piston calipers those actually are, before they get rebranded.
 
Just reading the descriptions on the website it’s clear that whoever is writing their descriptions has no blinking clue about Mopars. Or brakes. The fact that they’re selling straight up stock parts at the prices they’re asking is crazy. Clearly their “tech support” guy on their chat isn’t any better. Doesn’t bode well.

I wonder whose 4 piston calipers those actually are, before they get rebranded.

And this is why you shop at Dr Diff and Firm Feel.
 
The Guy on the chat on their website said that the Spindles and the upper control arms are 73-74 B-body.

He doesn't know what he is talking about. Forget them and just buy your stuff from Doctor Diff. At least Cass knows what he is talking about when it comes to Mopar brakes.
 
I got the A-body disc spindles from Dr Diff. Anyone have experience with his Stage 2 or Stage 3 kit? Is there a noticeable difference between the 2. I'll be using a 17" wheel on my Barracuda so the 13" rotors would "fill" the wheel better than the 11.75" rotor, But are the 4 piston Wilwood calipers better than the 2 piston Ferd calipers? Barracuda is getting a big block so I need as much braking as I can get.
 
Thanks Doc. I thought he was talking 73- up. "Never mind". Seems like a good item for you guys to work on.
Just don't release it after (or if) I go another direction!

Even though the "B" etc. spindles are more common, that article I last saw on Mopar Muscle (I think), mentioned a big toe change through the travel. This car will see strip time, and I really don't want that.
 
Thanks Doc. I thought he was talking 73- up. "Never mind". Seems like a good item for you guys to work on.
Just don't release it after (or if) I go another direction!

Even though the "B" etc. spindles are more common, that article I last saw on Mopar Muscle (I think), mentioned a big toe change through the travel. This car will see strip time, and I really don't want that.

There are two major articles on this. One, "Disk-o-tech" was written by Richard Ehrenberg. It talks about "ball joint overangling" and bump steer and toe changes with using the B/R/F/M/J spindles. All of it was speculation on his part, he never actually checked or published the data that supported what he was saying. Basically, he published a bunch of nonsense and stands by it to this day. The article is useful because it lists a bunch of part numbers and different ways to ID the factory parts, but almost everything he said about the geometry changes was either total BS or wildly exaggerated.

The second article was written by Bill Reilly. Unlike the Ehrenberg article, it actually compared all the suspension geometry between a 73-76 A body spindle and the 73+ B/R/F/M/J spindles. It includes the published data, which shows that while there is a very minor increase in toe changes (not a big change at all), there is also a very beneficial change in the camber gain curve using the later spindles. So much so that it's likely that the camber gain improvement outweighs the very small change in toe. You can argue back and forth, but for a handling car running wider front tires the camber gain would be a much more noticeable effect than any increase in the toe change. More than likely, the average driver wouldn't notice either on a regular old street car. And the "ball joint overangling" thing is total horsecrap.

This is the second article, it shows the data, explains what was done to get it, and what the changes actually mean. I'm not linking Ehrenberg's article, because other than the ID information it's just Ehrenberg making crap up and the BS outweighs the good information.

Swapping Disc-Brake Spindles - Mopar Muscle Magazine - Hot Rod
 
Thanks. I’m thinking I’ll probably have to go with the “B” type, just based on the lack of a body versions left.
It’ll be a while yet. I’m just looking ahead.
 
There are two major articles on this. One, "Disk-o-tech" was written by Richard Ehrenberg. It talks about "ball joint overangling" and bump steer and toe changes with using the B/R/F/M/J spindles. All of it was speculation on his part, he never actually checked or published the data that supported what he was saying. Basically, he published a bunch of nonsense and stands by it to this day. The article is useful because it lists a bunch of part numbers and different ways to ID the factory parts, but almost everything he said about the geometry changes was either total BS or wildly exaggerated.

The second article was written by Bill Reilly. Unlike the Ehrenberg article, it actually compared all the suspension geometry between a 73-76 A body spindle and the 73+ B/R/F/M/J spindles. It includes the published data, which shows that while there is a very minor increase in toe changes (not a big change at all), there is also a very beneficial change in the camber gain curve using the later spindles. So much so that it's likely that the camber gain improvement outweighs the very small change in toe. You can argue back and forth, but for a handling car running wider front tires the camber gain would be a much more noticeable effect than any increase in the toe change. More than likely, the average driver wouldn't notice either on a regular old street car. And the "ball joint overangling" thing is total horsecrap.

This is the second article, it shows the data, explains what was done to get it, and what the changes actually mean. I'm not linking Ehrenberg's article, because other than the ID information it's just Ehrenberg making crap up and the BS outweighs the good information.

Swapping Disc-Brake Spindles - Mopar Muscle Magazine - Hot Rod
Has anyone run the software using a realistic base alignment numbers? Zero camber and 1 def caster is not realistic.
 
Has anyone run the software using a realistic base alignment numbers? Zero camber and 1 def caster is not realistic.

Well it depends on what you're doing doesn't it? If you're running stock UCA's and bushings then you can't count on a ton more caster than that anyway and you probably don't want more than a -.5° of camber. For a lot of these cars lowered one inch and running those specs isn't that unrealistic.

More importantly, it's about the difference between the A-body spindles and the F/M/J spindles. Yes, it would be better if someone ran the comparison numbers with the camber at -.5° or -1° and and between +3° and +5° caster for those of us with more radical set ups. But those of us with more radical set ups should check our bump steer anyway right?

The absolute number and the difference between the spindles are two different things. If you're considering A body vs FMJ spindles, then it's the difference that you have to consider. And the difference between the spindles is small. Yup, there will be changes in the absolute numbers with the alignment settings and even more so for the ride height. And those absolute numbers are what you'll have to deal with if you want to minimize your bump steer. But if the difference between the spindles is small, and we're talking about picking which spindle to use, then the difference is what matters.
 
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