My requirements... what to build?

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Mgarrett88

Mgarrett88

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First of all, this forum is great!!! So much information to digest and to look at and to think about. Sometimes I get lost in thread after thread after thread.
So purpose of this thread is to lay out my requirements for my build and see what suggestions you all come up with. I am prepared for many. I will try to give as much information as I can for my requirements (which are not many). Feel free to ask questions.
I will say that this years project is disc brakes up front and some front end suspension mods. I plan to do the engine, transmission, and rear end in the next year or two. So I do have some time to do research, and make up my mind. However I would like to have my mind made up sooner so I can start to look for parts and really fine tune my plan.

I have a 1972 Scamp 318 with a 904 and the stock 7.25 rear end. All original.
within the next year or two I want to completely go through the drivetrain.

I am not going to swap to a modern Hemi. If I wanted something newer I can afford to buy a new challenger or charger so I am not really looking to do that.
With that being said I am looking to keep the car a small block. I thought numbers matching would be cool but I am not sold on that yet. So that narrows it down to 318 or 360. Not really interested in the 340's at this time.
What I am looking for is a nice driver with a little extra horses to boot. I would like to have some fun when I am on the street in town and still be able to take the car at 65mph with out having screaming RPMs. Most of my driving will be 0-65 maybe a few trips on the highway but not many. The car needs to run on pump gas, (does not need to be E85) and needs to be able to let the tires loose a little bit when I would like. Also the car needs to be reliable. The plan right now to do this rebuild once, and drive it for a decent many a years to follow. I do not put many miles on the Scamp per year. A few shows, a lot of ice cream runs, and a few trips to town. Thinking 300ish HP (maybe a tad more) to the wheel. The more the better but for my application I really do not see needing 400HP out of my car. I know there are a ton of articles how to get 400HP out of the 318 and I dont think at this time I am looking to do that.
I dont feel that my requirements are too steep. I am planning to pull my current motor but thats where I am torn. Do I rebuild the current 318 with added parts since I already have it? Do I acquire a 360 which may easily make what I want in a more complete package?
Right now plan is to leave the 904 in the car as well. Pull it, get it rebuild with some new and stronger innards but use it. Currently I do not want to cut the floor up for OD trans. The interior of my car is MINT and I really dont want to take it out. Also I dont do much driving long distance over 60MPH. I am not opposed to a 727 by any means I just thought since my HP will not be anything massive I should be able to run a 904 which from what I have read will actually deliver more power to the wheels anyway. Depending on rebuild cost I may purchase a new TCI 904 or 727 if that is a good way to go as well. I already know I plan to upgrade to the 8 3/4 rear. Thinking 3.23 gears but have a lot to learn in that department as well, so the gearing is up in the air.
Personally I think can get what I need out of the 318 I have. Get it rebuilt with a few goodies.
However reading about the 1972 and older blocks not being as good as the newer ones or the magnum motors it makes me wonder if I should think a different route. If I dont use this numbers matching 318 I dont think I would get a newer 318, I think I would jump right to the 360.

Fun, reliable, durable.

So what is everyones thoughts????
I am in Michigan so any good shops that folks recommend for engine and transmission work I am open to suggestions as well. Have some in mind but always open for suggestions and resources.

scamp.jpg
 
5.9 Magnum. *Basically* bolts in place of your 318. Uses a roller cam, fuel injection right from the factory. Good performer as is, very responsive to basic mods. Still cheap and easy to come by in the boneyards, and are generally in better shape than LAs, requiring less $$ to freshen up. The electronics adapt in reasonably easily. "Bolts up" to your 904.
Checks all the boxes, meets all the criteria.
The 904 is a good trans. and will serve you well after being freshened up, but with your milder combo consider a 32rh, which is basically a 904 with extra clutches, lower gears and a lockup convertor (AKA a999). Not quite an overdrive, but the lockup does help on the highway; and it BOLTS IN WITH NO MODS NEEDED, as opposed to the overdrives which require surgery... just a thought.
8 3/4s are getting pretty pricey, 8 1/4s are a reasonable alternative and if it came from an A body, it's a bolt-in. Drawback: if you want to stay with your small bolt circle, A body 8 1/4s only came with the 4.5" B.C.

P.S. Nice lookin' car!
 
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Well 300 HP to the wheels is around 360-380-ish HP at the crank, so to make it easy, that says the 360 or 5.9 route. The 318 would be a piece of cake for the low 300 HP range and certainly can go more, but the 360 is gonna be easier. The crank is good in either. Your early 318 will have the lighter connecting rods in it; fine for 300 HP IMHO, but maybe not for pushing 400 HP, but those are easy to replace with some decent aftermarket rods.

Just a few random thoughts to start.

Compression ratio is the lack in both the 318LA and the 360LA for cruising around and wanting to spin the tires at will, but that is fixed by piston selection.

Now to heads. Do you want cast iron ones for the look or for any other reason, or are aluminum aftermarket ones OK?

The Magnum or late 360 LA does get to the roller cam, which is pricier but gets away from the flat tappet lifter issues with needing ZDDP in the oil.

Cam is going to be pretty easy; not too big to keep low RPM torque for driving around. Fuel mileage is a factor on that; is fuel mileage a consideration?

BTW, 3.23 gears if you never exceed 60 mph is a bit low IMHO.
 
Professor Fate said:
5.9 Magnum. *Basically* bolts in place of your 318. Uses a roller cam, fuel injection right from the factory. Good performer as is, very responsive to basic mods. Still cheap and easy to come by in the boneyards, and are generally in better shape than LAs, requiring less $$ to freshen up. The electronics adapt in reasonably easily. "Bolts up" to your 904.
Checks all the boxes, meets all the criteria.
The 904 is a good trans. and will serve you well after being freshened up, but with your milder combo consider a 32rh, which is basically a 904 with extra clutches, lower gears and a lockup convertor (AKA a999). Not quite an overdrive, but the lockup does help on the highway; and it BOLTS IN WITH NO MODS NEEDED, as opposed to the overdrives which require surgery... just a thought.
8 3/4s are getting pretty pricey, 8 1/4s are a reasonable alternative and if it came from an A body, it's a bolt-in. Drawback: if you want to stay with your small bolt circle, A body 8 1/4s only came with the 4.5" B.C.

P.S. Nice lookin' car!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information and the trans recommendation. I will look into that as well. I think that will be the general consensus is to find a 5.9 magnum and drop that in. This will be my first go around with this type of swap so I am a bit new to finding everything that I would need to go with a complete 5.9 to make the conversion.

As for the rear I did already to the research and I would like to stay with the rims I currently have since they are already there. I think 8 3/4 is what I will try to track down.
 
nm9stheham said:
Well 300 HP to the wheels is around 360-380-ish HP at the crank, so to make it easy, that says the 360 or 5.9 route. The 318 would be a piece of cake for the low 300 HP range and certainly can go more, but the 360 is gonna be easier. The crank is good in either. Your early 318 will have the lighter connecting rods in it; fine for 300 HP IMHO, but maybe not for pushing 400 HP, but those are easy to replace with some decent aftermarket rods.

Just a few random thoughts to start.

Compression ratio is the lack in both the 318LA and the 360LA for cruising around and wanting to spin the tires at will, but that is fixed by piston selection.

Now to heads. Do you want cast iron ones for the look or for any other reason, or are aluminum aftermarket ones OK?

The Magnum or late 360 LA does get to the roller cam, which is pricier but gets away from the flat tappet lifter issues with needing ZDDP in the oil.

Cam is going to be pretty easy; not too big to keep low RPM torque for driving around. Fuel mileage is a factor on that; is fuel mileage a consideration?

BTW, 3.23 gears if you never exceed 60 mph is a bit low IMHO.
Click to expand...

Well If I went with my 318 I would be pulling it out and would be willing to spend on new pistons, rods, and what ever it needed to get some more HP. I am not just looking for bolt on mods. The engine needs to be freshened up anyway so if we are in there my thought was to replace a lot of it. I already know new intake, carb as well will be needed.

As far as heads I am not picky. Aluminum or cast I dont have a preference. Need to perform well, be reliable, and look halfway decent when I pop the hood at some shows.

Also as far as fuel milage, no that is not a big concern either as I do not intend to do a lot of long hauls with the car. I dont want to be getting 5 MPG where I need to stop all of the time but not looking to be a fuel saver either. It is more of a fun driving car. I live in the thumb of Michigan so more than likely the most driving I am doing is to shows within the state. Down to Detroit would be a nice drive with it and I wouldnt not want to be stopping several times to fill up.

Whats your thought on gearing in the rear?
 
360 magnum
find trans core mentioned or an a999 transgo reprogramming kit u will need a b&m flex plate
ur in MI so winter driving?
you can drill your axles for small bolt pattern if 8 1/4 - right forum?
if the magnum heads are not cracked run them
figure compression b 4 thinking cam
heads you want almost 0 deck with .028 gasket like-7 gives .035 quench
or 0 deck with .040 gasket
cc your heads ( magnum) and compute cr before buying pistons and vice versa
vice versa is you pick your pistons and heads (and gasket) as a team
pick the combo that gives you he most dynamic comprssion for your fuel
figure your cruz rpm , the rev range you want and aj can run the numbers for you
figure your exhaust
stock efi ( not 95and earlier) cam would work you will need timing chain set
if you want more up top how much do you want to give up starting from a stop sign at part throttle
a lot of take out engines sold with compression check can be run otb
if you are going to do pistons and rebuild rods you might as well stroke it
cheapest torque / $$$
 
Mgarrett88 said:
First of all, this forum is great!!! So much information to digest and to look at and to think about. Sometimes I get lost in thread after thread after thread.
So purpose of this thread is to lay out my requirements for my build and see what suggestions you all come up with. I am prepared for many. I will try to give as much information as I can for my requirements (which are not many). Feel free to ask questions.
I will say that this years project is disc brakes up front and some front end suspension mods. I plan to do the engine, transmission, and rear end in the next year or two. So I do have some time to do research, and make up my mind. However I would like to have my mind made up sooner so I can start to look for parts and really fine tune my plan.

I have a 1972 Scamp 318 with a 904 and the stock 7.25 rear end. All original.
within the next year or two I want to completely go through the drivetrain.

I am not going to swap to a modern Hemi. If I wanted something newer I can afford to buy a new challenger or charger so I am not really looking to do that.
With that being said I am looking to keep the car a small block. I thought numbers matching would be cool but I am not sold on that yet. So that narrows it down to 318 or 360. Not really interested in the 340's at this time.
What I am looking for is a nice driver with a little extra horses to boot. I would like to have some fun when I am on the street in town and still be able to take the car at 65mph with out having screaming RPMs. Most of my driving will be 0-65 maybe a few trips on the highway but not many. The car needs to run on pump gas, (does not need to be E85) and needs to be able to let the tires loose a little bit when I would like. Also the car needs to be reliable. The plan right now to do this rebuild once, and drive it for a decent many a years to follow. I do not put many miles on the Scamp per year. A few shows, a lot of ice cream runs, and a few trips to town. Thinking 300ish HP (maybe a tad more) to the wheel. The more the better but for my application I really do not see needing 400HP out of my car. I know there are a ton of articles how to get 400HP out of the 318 and I dont think at this time I am looking to do that.
I dont feel that my requirements are too steep. I am planning to pull my current motor but thats where I am torn. Do I rebuild the current 318 with added parts since I already have it? Do I acquire a 360 which may easily make what I want in a more complete package?
Right now plan is to leave the 904 in the car as well. Pull it, get it rebuild with some new and stronger innards but use it. Currently I do not want to cut the floor up for OD trans. The interior of my car is MINT and I really dont want to take it out. Also I dont do much driving long distance over 60MPH. I am not opposed to a 727 by any means I just thought since my HP will not be anything massive I should be able to run a 904 which from what I have read will actually deliver more power to the wheels anyway. Depending on rebuild cost I may purchase a new TCI 904 or 727 if that is a good way to go as well. I already know I plan to upgrade to the 8 3/4 rear. Thinking 3.23 gears but have a lot to learn in that department as well, so the gearing is up in the air.
Personally I think can get what I need out of the 318 I have. Get it rebuilt with a few goodies.
However reading about the 1972 and older blocks not being as good as the newer ones or the magnum motors it makes me wonder if I should think a different route. If I dont use this numbers matching 318 I dont think I would get a newer 318, I think I would jump right to the 360.

Fun, reliable, durable.

So what is everyones thoughts????
I am in Michigan so any good shops that folks recommend for engine and transmission work I am open to suggestions as well. Have some in mind but always open for suggestions and resources.

View attachment 1715525013
Click to expand...

Here's a good, cheap and easy-peasy upgrade.

Magnumswap.com - Your source for Dodge Magnum and Mopar engine swap tech.

Also, talk to @Johnny Mac here.
https://blueprintengines.com/collections/chrysler-crate-engines

SimpsonsSpeedShop
318willrun
510CurtDawg
Johnny Mac
 
First I would do the rear end. And 8 3/4's are getting expensive and overrated in my opinion. For the same price you could do a Dana 60 and have more than your car will ever give it.. (3.55 gears)
Working my way forward the transmission. The 904 is plenty strong for 10 second cars so just rebuilding it maybe with some heavy duty Parts would be more than adequate and lighter and less paretic drag as well...
And for the engine if you want to keep numbers matching and have lots of streetable power I would just do a stroker kit and have a 390 Stroker. It would just have gobs of off the pedal torque and you could even put a relatively mild cam in it and have everything you want...
My-2..
 
 
Heres my opinion and as I live in Australia and everything we do is about 3 times the price of US What I have done. I did a stroked 360 (410) with cast crank and chev pistons edelbrock heads cleaned up by me,3.23 diff and 4 speed manual transmission. Australian Valiant charger weighs around 1400 kgs (3100 lbs plus driver) with small 228 @ 50 thou cam ran ran 12.1 straight out. I broke the cast crank so rebuilt with steel crank forged pistons @ 10.5 comp and changed diff ratio to 3.91 and put the next larger cam in 234 @ 50 thou and have run 11.4 @ 120 mph. This has given me the courage to go the next level and spend a lot of money for a fully ported set of alloy heads and go a larger cam to attempt to get closer to the tens. We in Australia are known to be called TAVO''s Tight Arsed Valiant Owners. This 410 combo has beat all my expectations for the money I have spent and is a massively drivable experience, current rear wheel dyno fiqures are 394 RWHP and 595 RWTorque. Car is very mild and would drive even better as an auto and returns 21MPG on a run.I would not look back on either a 318 or 360 stoker for ease of making HP for a very mild and drivable combo!
 
j par said:
And for the engine if you want to keep numbers matching and have lots of streetable power I would just do a stroker kit and have a 390 Stroker. It would just have gobs of off the pedal torque and you could even put a relatively mild cam in it and have everything you want... My-2..
Click to expand...
That is a darned good thought, JP.

OP, if you are OK with the heads being aluminum, then you will get all the brething you will need at your HP range from any AL head that is out there. Makes it all pretty easy tot make HP.

As for fuel mileage, just don't go to wild with the cam size. A wider LSA like 112 will make the torque curve a bit wider and smoother (easier to cruise to the ice cream store with the wife) and will help fuel mileage. Not a lumpy idle.

As wrym has noted, the cam, head, and piston all get selected as a working package.

As for rear gearing, the 3.55 seems to be the odds-on favorite compromise gear for these cars. Not great for day-long cruises at 70+ mph with a 3 speed, non-overdrive trannie but it sounds like you won't be going too far.

BTW the 21 mpg listed above in Australia converts to around 17 mpg in the US.
 
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j par said:
First I would do the rear end. And 8 3/4's are getting expensive and overrated in my opinion. For the same price you could do a Dana 60 and have more than your car will ever give it.. (3.55 gears)
Working my way forward the transmission. The 904 is plenty strong for 10 second cars so just rebuilding it maybe with some heavy duty Parts would be more than adequate and lighter and less paretic drag as well...
And for the engine if you want to keep numbers matching and have lots of streetable power I would just do a stroker kit and have a 390 Stroker. It would just have gobs of off the pedal torque and you could even put a relatively mild cam in it and have everything you want...
My-2..
Click to expand...
Do you have a stoker kit you would recommend?
Also will the older 1972 block hold up to it?
Several great recommendations I know I will have a hard time making up my mind
 
Nice car! Love the Cragars. Keep the 318, 600 cfm 4 barrel on a aluminum intake, Electronic ignition with a performance advance curve from Halifaxhops, 340 exhaust manifolds of you wish with a nice dual exhaust system. I would upgrade the rear end to a 8 3/4 with a 3.55 gear. You could go a step further by changing the cam. Don't go too big or you'll end up putting a higher stall converter in just to make it work which is ok if you want to go another step further. Calling the cam companies is your best bet. Keep it simple
 
I have never heard anything about the 72 and earlier blocks being weaker. Anyone else have an opinion on that?

The only thing I can think of related to that is that 73 and earlier (or maybe it was the 72 and earlier) 318's had lighter connecting rods. The 318 production rods were changed to the heavier 340/360 rods in '73 or '74.

If you are changing rods anyway, then that is a not issue.

For stroker kits, look at SCAT and Eagle. The Eagle cast cranks seemed to have some issues at some point in time; not sure if that is still the case. So I'd personally look at SCAT cast crank kits, or forged crank kits from either.
 
nm9stheham said:
I have never heard anything about the 72 and earlier blocks being weaker. Anyone else have an opinion on that?

The only thing I can think of related to that is that 73 and earlier (or maybe it was the 72 and earlier) 318's had lighter connecting rods. The 318 production rods were changed to the heavier 340/360 rods in '73 or '74.

If you are changing rods anyway, then that is a not issue.

For stroker kits, look at SCAT and Eagle. The Eagle cast cranks seemed to have some issues at some point in time; not sure if that is still the case. So I'd personally look at SCAT cast crank kits, or forged crank kits from either.
Click to expand...

Unless it’s a T/A, X or R block one isn’t any better or stronger than any other.
 
Mgarrett88 said:
Do you have a stoker kit you would recommend?
Also will the older 1972 block hold up to it?
Several great recommendations I know I will have a hard time making up my mind
Click to expand...
For me personally I was going to do a 390 from a 318 but found them a little less common then doing the 360 into a 408 and thus being a little bit more expensive for the Pistons. Ends up my machine shop had a 360 block for $150 which was less than the extra cost of the Pistons at the time so why not do they 408 for less money? With that said I just looked at Jegs and Summit for a complete kit from scat.. (side note I would always go Summit over Jegs) I think it was $1,400 and that included a cast 4 inch crank, scat I-beam rods, icon forged pistons. Also arp Rod bolts and main bearings rod bearings and total seal piston rings.. aka the whole ball of wax LOL... I bought it flat out and had it sent to my house and gave it to the machine shop to save machine shop markup... Of course your "conductor" as I call it the cam... I called Ken at Oregon cam grinding and told him what I wanted just like you've told us what you wanted and he will grind you a cam for that motor and your gears and your combination for what you described you want. Not for all out performance not for this or that but what you want personally... Take that as well and drop it off at the machine shop.. also when you choose those Pistons you're probably going to want the dished Pistons so the compression isn't too high... I went with 596 360 heads and had 202 valves put in them and I'm very happy with them.. on the other hand two things I always wanted to aluminum heads and I found that Speedmaster aluminum heads on sale ended up being less than what I had to put into my cast-iron heads... the reason I mention that food for thought as once you put the stroker kit in there I don't think the 318 heads are going to be super happy. Not that they wouldn't work but there would be seemingly a restriction... Anyways more $0.02 since you asked for it...
 
Oh I forgot to add you asked about the 72 block.. I haven't heard anything but that doesn't mean that there's not people saying stuff. it doesn't sound like you have any intentions of doing stuff that's going to try and crack a Block LOL I think you're safe.
 
When I comes to LA small blocks, forget the year of block = good or bad. IF you have a good one, it's as good as the next one. You can sonic test the cylinder walls of two 318's produced the same year and one may have more "meat" than the other. Luck of the draw there, but don't fret about the year. Later LA's had roller cam blocks, just a FYI
 
j par said:
For me personally I was going to do a 390 from a 318 but found them a little less common then doing the 360 into a 408 and thus being a little bit more expensive for the Pistons. Ends up my machine shop had a 360 block for $150 which was less than the extra cost of the Pistons at the time so why not do they 408 for less money? With that said I just looked at Jegs and Summit for a complete kit from scat.. (side note I would always go Summit over Jegs) I think it was $1,400 and that included a cast 4 inch crank, scat I-beam rods, icon forged pistons. Also arp Rod bolts and main bearings rod bearings and total seal piston rings.. aka the whole ball of wax LOL... I bought it flat out and had it sent to my house and gave it to the machine shop to save machine shop markup... Of course your "conductor" as I call it the cam... I called Ken at Oregon cam grinding and told him what I wanted just like you've told us what you wanted and he will grind you a cam for that motor and your gears and your combination for what you described you want. Not for all out performance not for this or that but what you want personally... Take that as well and drop it off at the machine shop.. also when you choose those Pistons you're probably going to want the dished Pistons so the compression isn't too high... I went with 596 360 heads and had 202 valves put in them and I'm very happy with them.. on the other hand two things I always wanted to aluminum heads and I found that Speedmaster aluminum heads on sale ended up being less than what I had to put into my cast-iron heads... the reason I mention that food for thought as once you put the stroker kit in there I don't think the 318 heads are going to be super happy. Not that they wouldn't work but there would be seemingly a restriction... Anyways more $0.02 since you asked for it...
Click to expand...

Great information from everyone on here. Glad i have some time to make up my mind, research parts and get going on it.
Mancini Racing which is a Mopar shop down the road a ways here in Michigan also has a stroker kit for the 318.
Stroker Kit, 318-390 Cubic Inch, 0.984 Pin

i guess i need to decide on a machine shop as well and start to pick their brain!!!
 
j par said:
Oh I forgot to add you asked about the 72 block.. I haven't heard anything but that doesn't mean that there's not people saying stuff. it doesn't sound like you have any intentions of doing stuff that's going to try and crack a Block LOL I think you're safe.
Click to expand...
correct
nothing crazy at all. a fun street car that is drivable and reliable in one package
 
Mgarrett88 said:
Great information from everyone on here. Glad i have some time to make up my mind, research parts and get going on it.
Mancini Racing which is a Mopar shop down the road a ways here in Michigan also has a stroker kit for the 318.
Stroker Kit, 318-390 Cubic Inch, 0.984 Pin

i guess i need to decide on a machine shop as well and start to pick their brain!!!
Click to expand...
Remember your old buddy Jpar when he saves you $600 plus...
Screenshot_20200510-080234.png
 
Mgarrett88 said:
i guess i need to decide on a machine shop as well and start to pick their brain!!!
Click to expand...
"GRASSHOPPER!". . Remember start at the back and build forward start looking for a Dana 60 out of a truck or something like that. Looking for a machine shop that will cut down the rear end and put normal car ends on it so you can put your brakes and stuff on it. Also picking out your gears and your differential. If you get all that put in what's the new Driveline to your current setup it may change things as well with some nice gearing. Then after you enjoy that new gearing for a minute you can go ahead and pull the motor and transmission. While the motor is at the machine shop you can rebuild the transmission yourself which is easier than falling out of bed... $125 for a rebuild kit and $75 or less for a transgo shift kit.. I've installed the trans go two a couple of times and they make the transmission to shift perfect. Not harsh and banging just quick and snappy like you want it... no I'm running out of $0.02 and going to have to charge you $0.25 LOL...
 
j par said:
"GRASSHOPPER!". . Remember start at the back and build forward start looking for a Dana 60 out of a truck or something like that. Looking for a machine shop that will cut down the rear end and put normal car ends on it so you can put your brakes and stuff on it. Also picking out your gears and your differential. If you get all that put in what's the new Driveline to your current setup it may change things as well with some nice gearing. Then after you enjoy that new gearing for a minute you can go ahead and pull the motor and transmission. While the motor is at the machine shop you can rebuild the transmission yourself which is easier than falling out of bed... $125 for a rebuild kit and $75 or less for a transgo shift kit.. I've installed the trans go two a couple of times and they make the transmission to shift perfect. Not harsh and banging just quick and snappy like you want it... no I'm running out of $0.02 and going to have to charge you $0.25 LOL...
Click to expand...

Learning lots.
I do need to do some research on what I want to do with the rear end. The 7 1/4 rear right now isnt going to make it so that is for sure coming out. I would like to get a 8 3/4 rear for an A body but they are a tad pricy.
My thought was to do it all at once while the car is down down and the motor is out.
I am sure my mind will change several times over the course of this.

As previously mentioned this year is disc break conversion and some front end work. I believe my mind is already made up on that LOL.

Thanks for your help. Saving the link to this thread so I can revisit it when decision time comes.

Now the fun begins to start to talk and research shops in Michigan I can talk to.
 
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if i were to build a 318 i'd use the 390 stroker kit here https://www.hughesengines.com/Index...ciBLaXRz&level2=MzE4IHRvIDM5MA==&partid=25284

with the monar crank and h beam rods , I know expensive i just don't like Scat something about the name bothers me . besides I'm using a molnar crank and H beam rods really nice well made parts . A bit more $$ , what the hell performance ain't cheap . if price was the determining factor I'd drive a Chev or Ford
 
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