The transmission end of the z bar linkage goes into the hole circled in red. The other end bolts to the frame rail. Reinsatll it and your transmission will shift fine.
318 LA rebuild after losing a valve seat
- Thread starter Righty Tighty
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Unless I’m forgetting disassembling something, that part was never engaged in anything. When I installed the headers last year, I noticed it seemed useless since it didn’t do anything.
Wait, Z bar linkage?
AJ/FormS
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If the Park Pawl is jammed, the trans can still be shifted as you describe. Notice in the first image below, the Park rod is spring loaded on one end. This is so you can put the trans in the Park position with the shifter, but the car may have to roll a few inches on occasion, until the spring shoots the parkrod into the pawl when things line up. You can see the pawl in the second picture, and the lock-ring it engages.
In the third pic you can see the loc-ring mounted onto the output shaft.
Ok but here's the thing; After park has been successfully engaged, And if it jamms in there, that same flexibility allows you to move the shift lever, except now it feels like crap.
So
All you gotta do is un-jam the park rod.
So put the trans in any gear except park; then just gently rock the car back and forth, until it pops out. If the lever will not stay out of park, zip-tie it in reverse or neutral so it HAS to stay out of park.
IDK if it's possible, but if your 727, Park position has never worked right; perhaps someone installed a 904 parkrod in there. I know the 727rod won't go into a 904, I figured that out one time,lol. But I don't know about the other way.
Take a look at those park rods they are different.
And finally, if it just won't come out, I suppose the parkrod has become disengaged from the roostercomb, and you will have to
drop the pan.
and the VB
to re-engage it. and secure it with the E-clip
In the third pic you can see the loc-ring mounted onto the output shaft.
Ok but here's the thing; After park has been successfully engaged, And if it jamms in there, that same flexibility allows you to move the shift lever, except now it feels like crap.
So
All you gotta do is un-jam the park rod.
So put the trans in any gear except park; then just gently rock the car back and forth, until it pops out. If the lever will not stay out of park, zip-tie it in reverse or neutral so it HAS to stay out of park.
IDK if it's possible, but if your 727, Park position has never worked right; perhaps someone installed a 904 parkrod in there. I know the 727rod won't go into a 904, I figured that out one time,lol. But I don't know about the other way.
Take a look at those park rods they are different.
And finally, if it just won't come out, I suppose the parkrod has become disengaged from the roostercomb, and you will have to
drop the pan.
and the VB
to re-engage it. and secure it with the E-clip
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AJ/FormS
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Yes this does make sense
This happens when the console shifter ratio is different from the ratio at the trans. Your trans lever may be too long or too short, easy fix.
Marcohotrod
Well-Known Member
and then you line up the 0* dot ? wow. beginners may be better off with a simple timing set with only 1 keyway and 1 dot on lower sprocket
I disagree. It wasn’t hard to figure out by reading the documentation included.
Thanks, I’ll give it a shot. I’ve got a 904, so I don’t think it’s an incorrect parkrod. I need to somehow figure out a way to keep the bellhouse from twisting when I push the car, I think that might be preventing the mechanism inside from disengaging as well.
AJ/FormS
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I think it's the other way around; for some unknown reason the Parkrod is jammed, and because it is jammed, it causing the trans to rotate Once the rear tires are off the ground, the trans at it's nomally installed working angle, and the tires both turn by hand; the parkrod would normally not be preloaded and should pop tight out.
If it doesn't, you have two choices; 1) pop the tailshaft off and drive the rod forward and unlocking the pawl, or
2) drop the VB and pull the rod out.
I noticed the front of your trans is quite high. I suppose the driveshaft angle may be jamming it up. I don't think so, but I also don't know so , on account of I've never encountered a problem with that.
AJ/FormS
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I disagree;
Each tooth on the sprocket represents I think 14*. If you botch the install and don't degree it for verification... your cam could be 14* retarded or 14* advanced. But if the keyway in the cam is off be a couple of degrees, then you gotta throw that into the pot, same with the crank keyway, and chain stretch. So if you don't degree your cam there is a lotta lotta room for error
Those dots and symbols are just there to help you find a base line.
To help you understand what say, 4degrees means;
4* advanced from straight up represents about 5 or 6 psi cylinder pressure increase. No big deal if you have low-cylinder pressure to begin with; and 4* advance also causes your power peak to come down about 100 rpm.
Of course 4* retard does the opposite. So just 4* either way represents a total difference of ~12 psi and 200 rpm.
And we haven't even talked about tuning issues.
What about 14*?
Well; I recently met a guy online that had discovered exactly that and found his cam advanced one tooth; and his engine was not happy about that,nor was he.
Wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
we won a lot of races retarded one tooth the advancec back some
low gears stocker
no cheater cams allowed
low gears stocker
no cheater cams allowed
So, I recently bled the brakes, and while I had the rears in the air, they rotated freely. Come to think of it, the shifter was in the park position. If I moved the shifter into another position, like neutral or drive, and then rotated the wheels, then should it pop out? I did consider removing the tailshaft and moving the car to level ground, but maybe I'll pop it off and do what you suggested.
Yes, the transmission is higher than normal. It's being held up by a ratchet strap because when I was moving it around, the driveshaft was angled so that the universal was rubbing on the body. I'll drop it down and see what I can do.
I stand corrected. I think my thought was that it wasn't hard to understand how to install it to theoretically get X amount of advance or retard, but I wasn't thinking of the margin of error factored in regarding getting timing correct.
To further prove that I'm a beginner, I pose this question - if the cam is installed with #1 at TDC, theoretically it should be timed correctly, right? Then confirmed by degreeing? If it's off by a tooth, that would mean it's off relating to the distributor gear, right?
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
With#1 at TDC (and #6 will be at TDC also), then if you line up the dots perfectly in line, with the crank dot at 12 o'clock and the cam dot at 6 o'clock, then #6 is firing.
But.... the cam can be ground off-index, sprockets can be made incorrectly, and you could have been off a tooth, etc. All of these things have indeed happened, and all of these issues have been reported and discussed here, and corrected. So the ONLY way to know for sure it to do the cam timing exercise. The fact that the oiling was off-index is not proof of incorrect cam timing but it is suspicious.... as has occurred to you already.
The distributor (ignition) timing is a completely separate matter. Either or both can be right or wrong.
But.... the cam can be ground off-index, sprockets can be made incorrectly, and you could have been off a tooth, etc. All of these things have indeed happened, and all of these issues have been reported and discussed here, and corrected. So the ONLY way to know for sure it to do the cam timing exercise. The fact that the oiling was off-index is not proof of incorrect cam timing but it is suspicious.... as has occurred to you already.
The distributor (ignition) timing is a completely separate matter. Either or both can be right or wrong.
Well crap. You guys aren't going to like this, but I skipped degreeing the cam when I assembled the engine. I thought I could get away with it, and figured I would adjust the ignition timing. I wasn't trying to take a shortcut, I just simply didn't understand the importance.
AJ/FormS
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On one of my old 318s, decades ago, I advanced her 1 tooth and ran it with a worn out 340 chain ......... for many years. Money was tight, but I had these parts hanging on the wall, so .........badBoom!
One of my old 340s ran real good with a slightly retarded 318 cam,lol......... and the 318 heads too
AJ/FormS
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And you know what?;
chances are very good
that if the cam is not out a tooth,
your cam will have fallen into an acceptable zone.
It's been said that 2* either way cannot be felt by your butt-dyno.
And I can add that my butt-dyno cannot absolutely feel 8*advanced from 4*. I could only tell by knowing what to look for ........ but the thing is I started out with 180psi,lol.
From 8* advanced to 4* retarded, that I for sure felt! and was remarkable to me.
Stupid question, but what exactly are we talking about here? I mean, I'm assuming we're talking about the cam gear, but does that have to do with its relationship to the distributor gear? When I installed the cam, I didn't think there was a specific position to put it in.
AJ/FormS
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The way your post is written;
this quote ;
And so to me, this post;
At least to me,lol.
And we all know, that the distributor timing has nothing to do with cam timing; you can drop the D in any where you want to and just synchronize #1 TDC Compression to any tower that the rotor is pointing to when the reluctor lines up with a vane, any vane, and then that tower will be #1.
Of course there are some tower choices, that are better than others.
this quote ;
applys to this statement.
So I am not referencing the Distributor or timing at all.
And so to me, this post;
makes perfect sense.
At least to me,lol.
And we all know, that the distributor timing has nothing to do with cam timing; you can drop the D in any where you want to and just synchronize #1 TDC Compression to any tower that the rotor is pointing to when the reluctor lines up with a vane, any vane, and then that tower will be #1.
Of course there are some tower choices, that are better than others.
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I guess what I’m asking is, if it’s a tooth off, what is that in reference to? And how do I correct it?
I had this bad feeling when others were recommending Righty Tighty go to the 4° cam advance on his first time engine build. Too many variables for him for things to go wrong.
Should have gone with the single keyway roller chain and gear set, set straight up. Dots set to 12 O'clock on the cam gear and 12 O'clock on the crank gear.
Drop the distributor in with # 1 up on compression.
Would have been done by now so he could get onto more important things.
Should have gone with the single keyway roller chain and gear set, set straight up. Dots set to 12 O'clock on the cam gear and 12 O'clock on the crank gear.
Drop the distributor in with # 1 up on compression.
Would have been done by now so he could get onto more important things.
I think everything’s gonna be okay. IF the timing is off, then I’ll address it. Will it be frustrating? Of course. But it’ll be nobody’s fault but mine for a) choosing the more advanced route and b) not degreeing the cam like I should've.
I know that all the advice and suggestions have been made will good intent and I’m very appreciative of that. I can’t imagine how tiring it must get having to dumb down things to a beginner...but I’m getting there!
The engine is buttoned up and primed, and some might not like this, but I’m gonna roll with it the way it is. If it runs like ****, then I’ve got some troubleshooting to do, and believe me when I say this, I really do try to figure things out on my own before coming here to ask for advice. This is all one big lesson and I’m having a blast.
Oh boy, I owe you a huge apology. My pops came over today to help out with the car, and I was asking if he could help explain how the cam could be off by a tooth or so. After some back and forth, he realized I was talking about the gear on the camshaft that mates with the distributor, and then I realized that you were referring to the cam gear in the timing set (right?). In which case, makes perfect sense as to how it could be installed a tooth off (or way off). So, thanks for your patience and I'm sorry to put you through all that!
If it's any consolation, I'm 99.9% certain I installed the timing set correctly. I confirmed with a square to ensure the dots were perfectly inline and straight up and down. Now, I understand that there are still many variables involved, but at least the timing set was done right.
Moving on to the park pawl problem. I had him manipulate the shifter while I watched the linkage, and I could see a ton of slop - especially where the rod coming from the shifter meets the linkage. I held that in place so it could pivot, and the linkage was moving much more efficiently. I need to look underneath to see if there's a fastener missing, allowing it to move so much. We got it out of park and with the driver side rear wheel in the air, I could just barely move it, but with a lot of resistance. We tried moving the linkage in all shift positions and I could barely move the wheel in all positions except park. So at least the park pawl isn't jammed anymore.
Now, did I mention that I had drained the trans fluid at the time I removed the engine? The car has been rolled a few times here and there since then, could the lack of fluid be contributing to this problem?? I certainly don't think it helping... My pops was stumped - he's a Chevy 3 speed manual guy.
AJ/FormS
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Since you only jacked one wheel off the ground and are having difficulty rotating the wheel;
Is it possible that you have a SureGrip? jack both wheels off the ground and in any gear except park, and try rotating that wheel again. If both wheels now rotate in the same direction, then you DO have an SG .
But if the other wheel turns in the opposite direction then no SG.
And if there is still a lotta resistance, you should look into that.
No fluid in the trans is no big deal at this time, and is not a contributing factor.
as for;
Is it possible that you have a SureGrip? jack both wheels off the ground and in any gear except park, and try rotating that wheel again. If both wheels now rotate in the same direction, then you DO have an SG .
But if the other wheel turns in the opposite direction then no SG.
And if there is still a lotta resistance, you should look into that.
No fluid in the trans is no big deal at this time, and is not a contributing factor.
as for;
No problem; I sensed you were frustrated with me so I was pretty sure there was a miscommunication somewhere. Glad you figured it out.
I have an open rear, confirmed that when I had in off the ground bleeding the brakes. However, I removed the drums for cleaning and forgot to replace them before bleeding. So, I ended up pushing the shoes out. I adjusted them back so I could get the drums on and finished bleeding. I checked again just now in case I didn’t pull the shoes in enough, but still GREAT resistance with one wheel on the ground. Both wheels in the air and I moved the linkage by hand 2 clicks forward from the rear of the car (should be neutral, right?). Wheels turn with no resistance in opposite directions, drive shaft does not turn. With one wheel on the ground, lots of resistance but the drive shaft turns with the wheel.
And, I wasn’t frustrated with you at all. I was frustrated with myself for not understanding the problem!
And, I wasn’t frustrated with you at all. I was frustrated with myself for not understanding the problem!
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Timing may well be just fine.... your info on using the square to line up the dots is good news.
(FWIW, I CAN feel 4 degrees advance and have done the A-B test of that. It showed up in the off idle response and mid range.)
If you get curious: If you tape a degree wheel on the crank pulley, indexed it to a temporary pointer to 0 with #1 at TDC, and turned the crank to where you thought the intake was at it's peak opening, you will very probably know if you are in the ballpark or 14-15 degrees off. Here is a timing wheel you can print off and tape to some stiff cardboard: The Machinery Cleanery Universal Timing Disc, Degree Wheel, Downloadable - Goniometro per Messa in Fase dei Motori a 4 Tempi -
(FWIW, I CAN feel 4 degrees advance and have done the A-B test of that. It showed up in the off idle response and mid range.)
If you get curious: If you tape a degree wheel on the crank pulley, indexed it to a temporary pointer to 0 with #1 at TDC, and turned the crank to where you thought the intake was at it's peak opening, you will very probably know if you are in the ballpark or 14-15 degrees off. Here is a timing wheel you can print off and tape to some stiff cardboard: The Machinery Cleanery Universal Timing Disc, Degree Wheel, Downloadable - Goniometro per Messa in Fase dei Motori a 4 Tempi -
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