904 shifting issues with the motor OUT

-
Righty Tighty

Righty Tighty

Blame it on the dog
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2019
Messages
2,996
Reaction score
3,574
Location
Sahuarita, AZ
This is a long story, but that's because I want to be as detailed as possible in hopes that someone can point me in the right direction.

I rebuilt my 318 LA and it's ready to go in, so I was in the process of moving my 71 Scamp into the garage. Back when I pulled the engine, I drained all fluids including the transmission fluid (I'm not sure why, I'm new to this). The car has been rolled a few times with the motor out with no problems, but the last time I had slight trouble getting to shift into park. The car was born a column shift, but somebody before me converted it to a console shift.

My driveway is at a slight incline.

So, when I attempted to shift into neutral in order to push it into the garage, the shifter wouldn't catch on any of the gears. I felt some strange resistance, then 2 subtle clicks when I got down towards 2nd and 1st. Going back up towards park, same thing with the resistance and clicks.

I went underneath and was able to manipulate the linkage through all gears, and with one wheel in the air (I have an open rear) I could BARELY spin it. I mean, I had to bear hug it...and even then it was incredibly tight. With both wheels in the air, they spin freely with no resistance. I had a helper manipulate the shifter while I watched the linkage, and the pivot point where the shift rod meets the linkage was very sloppy. I was able to hold it while he shifted, and it tightened up, but still the same problem.

I had no issues until I moved it the last time into the driveway. Hopefully there's a transmission guru out there who might have an idea of where I went wrong.
 
Righty Tighty said:
This is a long story, but that's because I want to be as detailed as possible in hopes that someone can point me in the right direction.

I rebuilt my 318 LA and it's ready to go in, so I was in the process of moving my 71 Scamp into the garage. Back when I pulled the engine, I drained all fluids including the transmission fluid (I'm not sure why, I'm new to this). The car has been rolled a few times with the motor out with no problems, but the last time I had slight trouble getting to shift into park. The car was born a column shift, but somebody before me converted it to a console shift.

My driveway is at a slight incline.

So, when I attempted to shift into neutral in order to push it into the garage, the shifter wouldn't catch on any of the gears. I felt some strange resistance, then 2 subtle clicks when I got down towards 2nd and 1st. Going back up towards park, same thing with the resistance and clicks.

I went underneath and was able to manipulate the linkage through all gears, and with one wheel in the air (I have an open rear) I could BARELY spin it. I mean, I had to bear hug it...and even then it was incredibly tight. With both wheels in the air, they spin freely with no resistance. I had a helper manipulate the shifter while I watched the linkage, and the pivot point where the shift rod meets the linkage was very sloppy. I was able to hold it while he shifted, and it tightened up, but still the same problem.

I had no issues until I moved it the last time into the driveway. Hopefully there's a transmission guru out there who might have an idea of where I went wrong.
Click to expand...

I don't think you actually have a problem.
Here's why.
There is no way I would expect the linkage to work anywhere near correctly without the engine holding the trans in it's very specific running location.
AND there is a one way clutch called a sprag in the trans that when turned backwards way is WAY harder to turn because it causes you to have to spin the planetary gear set and clutch discs in the drum they are connected to.
AND with only one wheel in the air the gear multiplication through the spider gears is twice what it normally would be if you turned both wheels at the same time.
AND you can't hurt a trans by rolling the car around the driveway and garage.

That's my thoughts on it.
 
Do you have the transmission supported? With the engine out and transmission hanging there the driveshaft could bind. Or you could simply have a brake shoe hung up. 65'
 
Thanks for the input.

TrailBeast said:
I don't think you actually have a problem.
Here's why.
There is no way I would expect the linkage to work anywhere near correctly without the engine holding the trans in it's very specific running location.
AND there is a one way clutch called a sprag in the trans that when turned backwards way is WAY harder to turn because it causes you to have to spin the planetary gear set and clutch discs in the drum they are connected to.
AND with only one wheel in the air the gear multiplication through the spider gears is twice what it normally would be if you turned both wheels at the same time.
AND you can't hurt a trans by rolling the car around the driveway and garage.

That's my thoughts on it.
Click to expand...

I certainly hope you’re right. I didn’t think I could hurt it either, but then it occurred to me that maybe rolling it around dry could do something? Again, I’m still new to this so I’m just guessing.

Plymouth 65 said:
Do you have the transmission supported? With the engine out and transmission hanging there the driveshaft could bind. Or you could simply have a brake shoe hung up. 65'
Click to expand...

The transmission is being held up by a ratchet strap to keep the drive shaft inline. I learned the hard way that without it being held up, the universal joint will rub on the body. So, now it’s supported.

I made sure I didn’t accidentally leave the parking brake engaged, and I recently bled the brakes. When I bled the brakes, I removed the drums to clean them, and forgot to put the drums back on. Whoops! So, I had to adjust the shoes in so I could get the drums on. I thought since the wheels spin freely in the air, that that confirmed it’s not a problem with the brakes. But who knows?

My pops and I agreed that since we were able to get it in neutral, that I should drop the engine in, and get it running to circulate trans fluid. Then see how it behaves.
 
Righty Tighty said:
Thanks for the input.



I certainly hope you’re right. I didn’t think I could hurt it either, but then it occurred to me that maybe rolling it around dry could do something? Again, I’m still new to this so I’m just guessing.



The transmission is being held up by a ratchet strap to keep the drive shaft inline. I learned the hard way that without it being held up, the universal joint will rub on the body. So, now it’s supported.

I made sure I didn’t accidentally leave the parking brake engaged, and I recently bled the brakes. When I bled the brakes, I removed the drums to clean them, and forgot to put the drums back on. Whoops! So, I had to adjust the shoes in so I could get the drums on. I thought since the wheels spin freely in the air, that that confirmed it’s not a problem with the brakes. But who knows?

My pops and I agreed that since we were able to get it in neutral, that I should drop the engine in, and get it running to circulate trans fluid. Then see how it behaves.
Click to expand...

You would have to push that thing around for decades before it would ever get that dry.
If it was being towed the manual says something like no more than 8 miles and not very fast without removing the driveshaft..
You haven't pushed it over 45mph for 8 miles have you? :D
 
Haha, well...things get pretty crazy in my neighborhood! Okay that makes me feel better. It’s only gone about 40 feet total going back and forth from the driveway to the side of the street.

I’ll drop the engine and let er rip!
 
I'm at a loss here. I left it shifted in what should have been neutral, and pushed it into the garage with my truck. There was definitely more resistance than there should've been for pushing a car in neutral. Either way, I ended up dropping the motor and pulling both motor and tranny out for an unrelated reason. Dropped them both in, and tried pushing the car out of the garage into the driveway....NO DICE. It's stuck somewhere in a gear. The linkage is disconnected, so I manually selected each gear under the car. It won't move in any gear. I don't understand how I could move one rear wheel before, but now it won't move at all?
 
I would pull the drive shaft and make DARN sure it's not a rear axle/ brake problem. The emergency cables could be rusted for example
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top