Won’t start

-
What would I be looking for on my check valve? My rebuild kit and the book I was using showed this as been a piece of rubber. My carb has a metal strap with a ball about the size of a bb in it.
You've prob got an older carb then.
No big deal. And unlike the umbrella seal, its unlikely to be damaged by reformulations in fuel.
All the ball needs to do is move off the seat during refill and back on the seat when squirting.

When I was talking about the cam and levers, I was referencing the external adjustment.
upload_2020-5-25_17-2-56.png


This rides on a plastic cam
upload_2020-5-25_17-6-32.png
 
Last edited:
The way you wrote it, it sounded like you rebuilt it.
Get yourself Urich's Holley 4150/4160 Carb book. Its small, cheap - especially used, and was written by a guy who was VP of Engineering at Holley back when they had a clue there. Holley uses the term 'model number' for general design type. I assume yours is 4150 or 60

The List number is on the choke tower.
View attachment 1715534985

If there is a revision, its marked like this
View attachment 1715534989

It won't always say 'List' but its the top number.
View attachment 1715534990

With the List number we can then look up the dry specs from a rebuild sheet or other source.
I did rebuild it and the sheet I was talking about came with it. All the model numbers on that paper all start with an r tho and I have an 1850-3 which is not on that paper.
 
You've prob got an older carb then.
No big deal. And unlike the umbrella seal, its unlikely to be damaged by reformulations in fuel.
All the ball needs to do is move off the seat during refill and back on the seat when squirting.

When I was talking about the cam and levers, I was referencing the external adjustment.
View attachment 1715534994

This rides on a plastic cam
View attachment 1715534996

So I adjust that lever because there was way more than .015 in play at wide open. Then I removed the ignition from the distributor to crank it and fill up the Bowls and before I could count to ten I had fuel coming out the vents tubes up top. I stepped away for a little bit to let the fuel dry. Also check my spark and I am getting spark. Returned to the house after running some errands gas was dried so tried starting again and still won’t start
 
1850-3 is a general series number. The R number is the specific model and defines the factory jetting, air bleeds, etc. Very often the R number is stamped on the air horn, at least on older models.
 
I did rebuild it and the sheet I was talking about came with it. All the model numbers on that paper all start with an r tho and I have an 1850-3 which is not on that paper.
Sorry my misunderstanding.

Yes on Holley often shows the list numbers with r in front.
OK. An 1850-3 uses a 37-119 renew kit.
Lets see if there is an on-line pdf of the sheet that goes with it.

A/J may have something in his book too.
I may have some print material here, or it may be at the garage.
 
How are you checking spark? Like instructed earlier? Checking for spark jumping across a spark plug gap in open air is NOT a valid test. It only takes a few thousand volts to jump that small gap in open air, but that low voltage will not jump that same gap in a compressed fuel air mixture. So you have to set up a gap at least 1/4" in open air and see if the spark will jump that much larger gap to be sure the spark is strong enough.

The reason to go on about this is that you have fuel and 'maybe' spark AND if you did not touch the distributor, then the timing should not be off. So it is very probably either bad fuel or bad spark.

Just checking but was the fuel you put down the carb earlier on fresh fuel .... for sure? Any way the spark plug wires were rotated around the distributor cap?
 
I’ve been using this book View attachment 1715535208
Actually don't know that one.

1850 is a very common carb. We'll have no problem helping on that.
Not sure this is on track to helping with your problem. I think you posted that fuel did come out of the shooters. yes?

Side hung floats. Floats go parallel when the bowl is held upside down.
That's generally a good rule of thumb with Holley side hungs
https://documents.holley.com/199r8339.pdf

https://documents.holley.com/199r8179-1rev.pdf
 
Anyway. The 1850-3 probably has a externally adjustable floats and fuel level sight plugs on the side. If so, with the engine off unscrew the site plug on the primary bowl. Fuel level should be at or just below the bottom of the plug. If you don't see it, get small flashlight and/or gently rock the car to see if sloshes up enough so you can tell its there.

Then you know fuel in the bowl is not an issue. Move on to the next possible cause.
 
So I adjust that lever because there was way more than .015 in play at wide open. Then I removed the ignition from the distributor to crank it and fill up the Bowls and before I could count to ten I had fuel coming out the vents tubes up top. I stepped away for a little bit to let the fuel dry. Also check my spark and I am getting spark. Returned to the house after running some errands gas was dried so tried starting again and still won’t start
Oops. You're ahead of me - sort of.
Well in that case. Two options. Loosen the lock screw and turn the hex nut while bowls are on the carb. or, less guesswork, take both bowls off and adjust the floats as shown in the firs pdf.
 
Anyway. The 1850-3 probably has a externally adjustable floats and fuel level sight plugs on the side. If so, with the engine off unscrew the site plug on the primary bowl. Fuel level should be at or just below the bottom of the plug. If you don't see it, get small flashlight and/or gently rock the car to see if sloshes up enough so you can tell its there.

Then you know fuel in the bowl is not an issue. Move on to the next possible cause.

I did that and when I rocked the car I could hear it sloshing around but wasn’t coming out the hole yet on the front bowl. Will try the light tho.
 
How are you checking spark? Like instructed earlier? Checking for spark jumping across a spark plug gap in open air is NOT a valid test. It only takes a few thousand volts to jump that small gap in open air, but that low voltage will not jump that same gap in a compressed fuel air mixture. So you have to set up a gap at least 1/4" in open air and see if the spark will jump that much larger gap to be sure the spark is strong enough.

The reason to go on about this is that you have fuel and 'maybe' spark AND if you did not touch the distributor, then the timing should not be off. So it is very probably either bad fuel or bad spark.

Just checking but was the fuel you put down the carb earlier on fresh fuel .... for sure? Any way the spark plug wires were rotated around the distributor cap?
Understood and appreciate all the help with try again on testing the spark, but with it only 1/4” in open air.
 
Could you have switched/reversed the wires on the flux capacitor????
 
How are you checking spark? Like instructed earlier? Checking for spark jumping across a spark plug gap in open air is NOT a valid test. It only takes a few thousand volts to jump that small gap in open air, but that low voltage will not jump that same gap in a compressed fuel air mixture. So you have to set up a gap at least 1/4" in open air and see if the spark will jump that much larger gap to be sure the spark is strong enough.

The reason to go on about this is that you have fuel and 'maybe' spark AND if you did not touch the distributor, then the timing should not be off. So it is very probably either bad fuel or bad spark.

Just checking but was the fuel you put down the carb earlier on fresh fuel .... for sure? Any way the spark plug wires were rotated around the distributor cap?


I’ve attached a link to the video of when I test the spark. Because it’s laying on its side is that considered open air? So it would need to be 1/4” of a gap between the top of metal and all of the coil not just one side of it?

 
That should be plenty of spark, although the vid is so short it is hard to see if it's stable. If you cranked it long enough to determine that it does not "come and go" then I'd say that is fine.

Seems to me this thread got a bit off track. If the engine is not firing at all, or at least not firing long enough to "run and die" AKA a couple seconds, you don't really need to worry much about the carb. That wasy my point earlier, I've fired up junk engines for a second or two without a carb at all. Just fuel dumped into the manifold
 
Actually don't know that one.

1850 is a very common carb. We'll have no problem helping on that.
Not sure this is on track to helping with your problem. I think you posted that fuel did come out of the shooters. yes?

Side hung floats. Floats go parallel when the bowl is held upside down.
That's generally a good rule of thumb with Holley side hungs
https://documents.holley.com/199r8339.pdf

https://documents.holley.com/199r8179-1rev.pdf
The second link is the document I got with my rebuilt kit and couldn’t find a number that matched anything on my carb. I am going to remove the bowls and try setting them inverted like the first link suggests.
 
That should be plenty of spark, although the vid is so short it is hard to see if it's stable. If you cranked it long enough to determine that it does not "come and go" then I'd say that is fine.

Seems to me this thread got a bit off track. If the engine is not firing at all, or at least not firing long enough to "run and die" AKA a couple seconds, you don't really need to worry much about the carb. That wasy my point earlier, I've fired up junk engines for a second or two without a carb at all. Just fuel dumped into the manifold
My wife took the video and the spark caught our son off guard hence why the video is so short lol.

So then I’m having a fuel issue not a carb issue?
 
...when I rocked the car I could hear it sloshing around but wasn’t coming out the hole yet on the front bowl. Will try the light tho.
No need to look further. Unless I've misunderstood, its siphoned though the boosters or leaked down after this
Then I removed the ignition from the distributor to crank it and fill up the Bowls and before I could count to ten I had fuel coming out the vents tubes up top.
So the needle valve wasn't shutting the fuel off even when overflowing.

That would also goes along with the fact it was almost starting when the throttle was held open.


So I adjust that lever because there was way more than .015 in play at wide open.
Those instruction have confused everyone forever.
Here's the deal. The spring adjuster should be just touching the pump lever at slow idle.
Then, when at wide open throttle the lever should have enough play in it when pushed further that a .015" feeler gage can be slipped in. The purpose is to be confident its not bottoming out the pump diaphram under normal operation. Even if it is bottoming out, the spring has, or should have, some give in it; so its not the end of the world.
 
Last edited:
Here's the deal. The spring adjuster should be just touching the pump lever at slow idle.
Then, when at wide open throttle the spring should have enough give in it (at least .015") to be confident its not bottoming out the pump diaphram.

So I’ll readjust that again.

Unless I've misunderstood, its siphoned though the boosters or leaked down after this

Just the secondaries, primaries are still dry.

Also last time I tried to start it I’ve noticed I have some gas coming from the rear passenger side of the carb.
 
No need to look further. Unless I've misunderstood, its siphoned though the boosters or leaked down after this

So the needle valve wasn't shutting the fuel off even when overflowing.

That would also goes along with the fact it was almost starting when the throttle was held open.


Those instruction have confused everyone forever.
Here's the deal. The spring adjuster should be just touching the pump lever at slow idle.
Then, when at wide open throttle the lever should have enough play in it when pushed further that a .015" feeler gage can be slipped in. The purpose is to be confident its not bottoming out the pump diaphram under normal operation. Even if it is bottoming out, the spring has, or should have, some give in it; so its not the end of the world.
So I found the reference number on the air horn its R6910. It’s not on the reference sheet you posted or the one I have. I googled it and according to Holley that number belongs to 4165 800cfm carb. And the other number on the choke housing though suggest it’s a 4160. Could this used carb be a mixed match parts carb and that’s why I’m having issues getting fuel out the front booster? I’ve attached some pics for reference.

58C7AEDD-C579-48D9-ABC9-215338C3ACD6.jpeg


25EF1074-BA54-4484-8F97-9850A3E51C46.jpeg


2E7A1FE8-3EFB-454C-9BCB-7E70535AF020.jpeg
 
Last edited:
That must be a body casting number there, not the R list number. R6910 is an 800 cfm on your list and mine.

Here is another reference that is probably correct:
1850-3 Carburetor Info Page

Your spark looks good. That is the right way to check for spark energy. With that spark and a bit of fresh fuel down the carb throat, and ignition timing anywhere near to right, it should have at least sputtered.

So either fuel being bad/not fresh or ignition timing is back on the table. Were the spark plug wires removed in the installation process?

One more thing but not likely: Did you disturb anything on the heads or valvetrain, like rockers or pushrods? If you have a compression tester, then I would check cylinder compressions just to get that question out of the way. If you don't have one, then hold that idea for a while.
 
That must be a body casting number there, not the R list number. R6910 is an 800 cfm on your list and mine.

Here is another reference that is probably correct:
1850-3 Carburetor Info Page

Your spark looks good. That is the right way to check for spark energy. With that spark and a bit of fresh fuel down the carb throat, and ignition timing anywhere near to right, it should have at least sputtered.

So either fuel being bad/not fresh or ignition timing is back on the table. Were the spark plug wires removed in the installation process?

One more thing but not likely: Did you disturb anything on the heads or valvetrain, like rockers or pushrods? If you have a compression tester, then I would check cylinder compressions just to get that question out of the way. If you don't have one, then hold that idea for a while.
Fuel is all fresh, I did remove plugs wires for two and four so I could remove the valve covers. I did not touch any other part of the valve train.
 
-
Back
Top