New! And some header questions..

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Nic Ereminas

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Hello forums! I am new to this sight, but I have used it in the passed for various things.
So I am 18 years old, and I love mopars. I've grown up with them as my dad has always loved them. He actually has a 69 se r/t 440 4 speed charger that I helped him resurrect from our barn, and that has been a total blast. My first car was a 74 Gold Duster, slant 6 torqueflite, and that has been my daily for two years now. I worked a summer job and saved up and bought a 72 4 door dart with a 318 with a cam and heads as a replacement, as it is in much better condition, and has various upgrades that the duster was lacking. We are also doing a 4 speed conversion on it. Soon, I am hoping to sell the duster to pay for these things. So now onto the headers part...

Currently the dart has manifolds, but I want to make custom headers and exhaust for it. I am in the process of designing (and hopefully soon actually making) an un-intrusive 8 into 1 header, I don't know if you have seen the youtube videos on it but on youtube search "8 into 1 header" or "tanner faust passat," and you will quickly see why I want these. The reason I want to do this is to have something different, and that sounds wicked. I'd love to start a youtube channel on it to get my generation excited about older cars, because not many younger guys are!! So if I was to make these, would there be a market if I was able to connect with an exhaust shop to make multiples of them? And, unfortunately the primaries will most likely have to be much longer than the regular hooker headers (probably 40".) Will this be an issue for me? (my main goal is sound, but obviously a big second is performance.) I'd love to hear any comments or thoughts! Thanks!
-Nic
 
Welcome, excited to see if you pull off your eight into one header project. Post lots of pics
 
Worry about performance first. Sound good s second and will take care of itself. Sound comes from a few various sources. The header is really not one of them. The header will deliver a few more db’s them iron manifolds.

Largely the rhythm of the sound is from the cam.
A tight, drum like sound comes a lot from compression as well as the cam lives actions. Compression has a lot to do with it, cam action second.
The last is a biggie! Not only the size of the exhaust pipe plays a roll, which is like the size of the loud speaker diameter, but the actual muffler used has a major roll.

Custom building your own headers is a mountain of work to tackle. The main thing is to do the math on tube length before you do anything at all. This is dependent on the engines build parameters and parts used to obtain the goal your after.

Then! Then comes pipe routing plans, then Cutting!

I look forward to your project postings and pictures.

Welcome aboard!
 
Hey a local! Welcome.

Good luck with your project. Anything can be done with enough time, money and dedication, oh and tools. Lots of tools.
 
Welcome! Sounds like a very difficult project to visualize but would be great with a turbo hung on the collector...although that would take care of the sound.
 
There is something similar is some circle track stuff. It’s still two separate 4-1 headers but they go over the transom. First, they are a giant PITA to fit and work around. Second, the primaries are so long it moves peak torque lower than it should be.

Also, to get it all done with an 8-1 design not only will the primaries be way too long, they also have to be too small. Engine bay real estate is always at a premium, so more tubes fighting for the same space makes for poor header performance.

I’m going to google the 8-1 thing and look at what is going on. My best metric for stuff like this is I look at class cars with a fairly unlimited budget and see what they are doing. I’ve never seen that arraignment on anything, drag, circle, dirt, pavement...whatever. Ever.

So I’m interested for sure.
 
They do or did this stuff on some of those high end Indy like or something like Formula cars. I stopped watching years ago but I do remember this exhaust in those cars and some weird exotics back in the day.

Back then, I saw it more of a Real estate issue of the car itself. It was easier to route the exhaust that way because any other way was out of the question.

This 8-1 is t something I’d endeavor to do. But it is very interesting. I agree about those long tubes. What to do with these below? LMAO!

4906C022-4B5F-4786-BF6E-BBDE48EA54F9.jpeg
 
rumblefish360 said:
They do or did this stuff on some of those high end Indy like or something like Formula cars. I stopped watching years ago but I do remember this exhaust in those cars and some weird exotics back in the day.

Back then, I saw it more of a Real estate issue of the car itself. It was easier to route the exhaust that way because any other way was out of the question.

This 8-1 is t something I’d endeavor to do. But it is very interesting. I agree about those long tubes. What to do with these below? LMAO!

View attachment 1715535470
Click to expand...
Those are pretty crazy! Do you know what they're originally from?
 
rumblefish360 said:
Worry about performance first. Sound good s second and will take care of itself. Sound comes from a few various sources. The header is really not one of them. The header will deliver a few more db’s them iron manifolds.

Largely the rhythm of the sound is from the cam.
A tight, drum like sound comes a lot from compression as well as the cam lives actions. Compression has a lot to do with it, cam action second.
The last is a biggie! Not only the size of the exhaust pipe plays a roll, which is like the size of the loud speaker diameter, but the actual muffler used has a major roll.

Custom building your own headers is a mountain of work to tackle. The main thing is to do the math on tube length before you do anything at all. This is dependent on the engines build parameters and parts used to obtain the goal your after.

Then! Then comes pipe routing plans, then Cutting!

I look forward to your project postings and pictures.

Welcome aboard!
Click to expand...
Thanks this is all really good information. I'm excited to hear what the cam sounds like (we haven't started it yet.) For compression, we have a 360 and I've heard that people take those and shave them down a lot for the 318? Would this be a good route to take for higher compression?

And about tube diameter, bigger diameter means lower pitched and bass sounding, correct? We did an exhaust for my duster with a bigger diameter downpipe and it made it sound way deeper. What would be a good diameter, and does the length of the primaries affect how big the tubes should be? Thanks
 
yellow rose said:
There is something similar is some circle track stuff. It’s still two separate 4-1 headers but they go over the transom. First, they are a giant PITA to fit and work around. Second, the primaries are so long it moves peak torque lower than it should be.

Also, to get it all done with an 8-1 design not only will the primaries be way too long, they also have to be too small. Engine bay real estate is always at a premium, so more tubes fighting for the same space makes for poor header performance.

I’m going to google the 8-1 thing and look at what is going on. My best metric for stuff like this is I look at class cars with a fairly unlimited budget and see what they are doing. I’ve never seen that arraignment on anything, drag, circle, dirt, pavement...whatever. Ever.

So I’m interested for sure.
Click to expand...
This is good information thanks. It will be a lot of work for sure. If they work it will be sooo worthit though.
 
abdywgn said:
Welcome! Sounds like a very difficult project to visualize but would be great with a turbo hung on the collector...although that would take care of the sound.
Click to expand...
Haha true that would be amazing. Don't have the budget or skills for that unfortunatley.. I'll post pictures about what i'm designing right now!
 
Nic Ereminas said:
Those are pretty crazy! Do you know what they're originally from?
Click to expand...
The white headers? I got them from a member here who stated they would fit a big block in an A body but they were no where near getting in my Duster with a 400 low deck B engine. I don’t know who even made them. There kind of cool looking though!
 
Nic Ereminas said:
Hello forums! I am new to this sight, but I have used it in the passed for various things.
So I am 18 years old, and I love mopars. I've grown up with them as my dad has always loved them. He actually has a 69 se r/t 440 4 speed charger that I helped him resurrect from our barn, and that has been a total blast. My first car was a 74 Gold Duster, slant 6 torqueflite, and that has been my daily for two years now. I worked a summer job and saved up and bought a 72 4 door dart with a 318 with a cam and heads as a replacement, as it is in much better condition, and has various upgrades that the duster was lacking. We are also doing a 4 speed conversion on it. Soon, I am hoping to sell the duster to pay for these things. So now onto the headers part...

Currently the dart has manifolds, but I want to make custom headers and exhaust for it. I am in the process of designing (and hopefully soon actually making) an un-intrusive 8 into 1 header, I don't know if you have seen the youtube videos on it but on youtube search "8 into 1 header" or "tanner faust passat," and you will quickly see why I want these. The reason I want to do this is to have something different, and that sounds wicked. I'd love to start a youtube channel on it to get my generation excited about older cars, because not many younger guys are!! So if I was to make these, would there be a market if I was able to connect with an exhaust shop to make multiples of them? And, unfortunately the primaries will most likely have to be much longer than the regular hooker headers (probably 40".) Will this be an issue for me? (my main goal is sound, but obviously a big second is performance.) I'd love to hear any comments or thoughts! Thanks!
-Nic
Click to expand...
So this is unconventional, I know. But I'm doing what I can to make it easier on myself later. Here are some pictures of my designs so far:
IMG_5660[1].JPG
IMG_5659[1].JPG
Annotation 2020-05-26 143328.png
Annotation 2020-05-26 143214.png
Basically, I took the hooker header design, changed which tubes went where but kept the shape for the most part, because I know they fit. I changed them to be better optimized for a flat layout instead of the regular 2 ontop of 2 for the collector. Then, hopefully as you can see in my drawings that are upsidedown for some reason that I will merge them together under... the transmission maybe? With a flat, nascar style collector so that they can all come together, but hopefully avoid the ground clearance problem. Let me know what you guys think!
 
Nic Ereminas said:
Thanks this is all really good information. I'm excited to hear what the cam sounds like (we haven't started it yet.) For compression, we have a 360 and I've heard that people take those and shave them down a lot for the 318? Would this be a good route to take for higher compression?
Click to expand...

No, use a proper piston to get compression unless this is a super budget build. If it is, then mill the heads.

And about tube diameter, bigger diameter means lower pitched and bass sounding, correct? We did an exhaust for my duster with a bigger diameter downpipe and it made it sound way deeper. What would be a good diameter, and does the length of the primaries affect how big the tubes should be? Thanks
Click to expand...

Im not sure what the heck a down pipe is. I’m sorry, but your going to have to learn some “Old Man Lingo!”

A bigger diameter pipe will have very little in influence on sound. It’s more of the muffler. A larger diameter tube will have an effect on power by moving the power curve upwards and hurting torque down low. Size the exhaust pipe and headers for the build and driving arena you’ll be in.

The actual sound out of the exhaust pipe is due to several items in f the engine and exhaust. Again, mainly mufflers.
 
rumblefish360 said:
The white headers? I got them from a member here who stated they would fit a big block in an A body but they were no where near getting in my Duster with a 400 low deck B engine. I don’t know who even made them. There kind of cool looking though!
Click to expand...
Those look wayyyy to big to fit in an abody, especially with a big block! Those do looks crazy though. Someone put in some effort to make them equal length it looks like!
 
Those headers pictured are the typical 50 year old one size fits all header design. Those are good for 400 plus HP and are best used in a typical street driven hot rod with an engine of stock or slightly bigger size.

If you went to the next size header, a 1-3/4 tube, I’d call it good for better than 500 hp, but not much more.

Going up from a 1-3/4 tube header, your in race car Territory. I said that the smaller head or won’t make the power above what I list, buddy longitude Heather will do it better. You can still take the small to better higher power. The signs out had a tube size, it gets kind of funny and dicey. There’s a lot of parameters and I’m leaving out that we need to be discussed and sign stout. This I suggest, you do a lot of homework on!
 
rumblefish360 said:
No, use a proper piston to get compression unless this is a super budget build. If it is, then mill the heads.



Im not sure what the heck a down pipe is. I’m sorry, but your going to have to learn some “Old Man Lingo!”

A bigger diameter pipe will have very little in influence on sound. It’s more of the muffler. A larger diameter tube will have an effect on power by moving the power curve upwards and hurting torque down low. Size the exhaust pipe and headers for the build and driving arena you’ll be in.

The actual sound out of the exhaust pipe is due to several items in f the engine and exhaust. Again, mainly mufflers.
Click to expand...
Okay thank you! I will keep all of this in mind.
 
Nic Ereminas said:
Those look wayyyy to big to fit in an abody, especially with a big block! Those do looks crazy though. Someone put in some effort to make them equal length it looks like!
Click to expand...
Hedman and Hooker made these headers back in the day. I’m not sure who else might have. A lot of people poke fun at the tube length. Way to long. I agree. But, those headers and a interesting intake on an odd Seldomly seen car or hot rod gets looks and that’s a cool thing.

If I use them for that, it would be for the cool factor and not the power factor. The d just tell people that and I don’t really car about the finer points of header design for THIS BUILD, thank you very much.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Those headers pictured are the typical 50 year old one size fits all header design. Those are good for 400 plus HP and are best used in a typical street driven hot rod with an engine of stock or slightly bigger size.

If you went to the next size header, a 1-3/4 tube, I’d call it good for better than 500 hp, but not much more.

Going up from a 1-3/4 tube header, your in race car Territory. I said that the smaller head or won’t make the power above what I list, buddy longitude Heather will do it better. You can still take the small to better higher power. The signs out had a tube size, it gets kind of funny and dicey. There’s a lot of parameters and I’m leaving out that we need to be discussed and sign stout. This I suggest, you do a lot of homework on!
Click to expand...
Ah okay thanks. I will do more research on it!
 
Check out 180-degree headers if you want a unique sound from a V8.
 
img_5660-1-jpg.jpg


If yur gonna do this (above), then you might as well just start with a pre-engineered, set of off-the-shelf headers, and stick a common plenum under or behind the transmission. That could be a couple of hours work instead of a couple of weeks......... or a couple of months, after two or three tries.
And if you do that, you might as well just install an X-pipe, which will do the same thing.
an LS chubby is not a MOPAR, you will never get a 318 to sound like Tanners screamer,never.


If you want wicked, just install Laker Pipes. Enjoy the 18436572, which becomes;
left,right,right,left,right,left,right,left ; left,right,right,left,right,left,right,left;
left,right,right,left,right,left,right,left;...........
which gives the V8 it's peculiar idle-cadence.
With Laker pipes, you get;
On the left.... putt,putt,space,space,putt,space,putt,space;repeat
On the right; space,space,putt,putt,space,putt,space,put; repeat
Read, and speak it, fast; you'll get it.
If you want wicked, rev it to 7200.Just have a spare engine in the garage.
 
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