I've seen A LOT of posts about making HP with a 318-So why is it so ???

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barbee6043 said:
Many reasons people tend to build anything that is considered less than the ultimate.
Why? The challenge. Mopar people have always been less than mainstream. Why LA 318, even poly 318 (A motors), why a 383 and not a 440? Whyput any$in a slant? Challenge.
Money. If $$ was not a factor, 99% of us wold be running a 426 hemi maybe? In a 71 Cuda maybe?
Not everyone has to be the biggest, the baddest, the most complicated, the most expensive... to enjoy this hobby.
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Don't convolute this thread with anything other than the 318 please. To wit--If it is all about $$$$ The 360 wins with its 4" bore making good pistons far cheaper than a 318. So why the 318 if its all about $$$? Yes I am biased, I pretty much view 318's as something I wouldn't sink a nickle into and I often push my customers into finding a 360 as it is BETTER and CHEAPER. J.Rob
 
Hey - O! Mornin! This reply I made after reading only your post & not one reply.

RAMM said:
So how much HP do you see the UTG/LOG/NG 318 making even when corrected? (me 255ish)
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Good question. IDK. Is a combo I’d never screw together.
There are thousands of posts and threads all across the internet concerning the 318 and hopping them up--so why does it seem so hard?
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It really shouldn’t be hard to get a good power number from a 318 despite its short comings.
I believe it is because nobody REALLY invests in a 'teener (stock stroke that is) . Why the HECK would they? When I say invest I mean --proper compression/pistons/porting etc...
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I think no one does a stock stroke 318 due to the risk and more than probable out come of being brow beaten to death for doing so.

EVERYONE usually moves to a 340 or a 360 based build--WHY? Because it makes sense.
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While it does make sense, that logic can also have its holes and one could instantly label the other a Hypocrite.
I understand the budget angle but logic always prevails. Why pay 1-2 thirds more for a 318 specific piston when a 360 piston is available?
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While a piston is the only part of the short block being more expensive verse a 340/360, how much more is it to get a 340 block and then get pistons? Granted, 360 cores are very cheap and even free if you know the right person. But if your paying even a very cheap fee for a 360, add that price to the pistons for it and you can compare the totals and be at the same starting point.

I happen to have a 1983 318 block on the floor and may just try and shoot myself in the foot with the following:

I am VERY tempted to make my own YOUTUBE quality video concerning the 318 and yes it will need proper machining and cleaning and some parts will cost actual money. HP goal is more than 250--lol.
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While I like this idea A LOT! Why stop there at just a better long block or full engine build and run a short cam test and maybe induction test?

Use the same cam they did but a better spring board to start with. (Short and/or long block)

What is the bare minimum that everyone wants to see?
What is the maximum everyone wants to see (machining/parts etc..)?

What say you FABO? J.Rob
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I kind of said it above. (Last response)
But as far as bare minimum stats, IMO, just starting with a copy of the build with better pistons and machine work, that would be a great and awesome start.

But it does skip the one thing the whole UTG build was to do for a super budget build for a guy claiming no money for a proper build. (LOG)

Are you prepped to do a exact copy cat build?
Or would a total re-machining of an engine as a guide to get power from a 318?
 
as most have found out making good hp in small blocks is not difficult.Usually requires a cam that kills lo rpm torque which 318's already lack.
Torque is what is required for the street. Small cams are best in 340's and 360's as well for street driven cars.
 
Small ? OK less than .480 lift where stock sm blk heads stall out flow wise and .220 max.duration would provide good street torque in a 340 or 360.
Stay away from tall 275R1560's!
 
:rofl:
NICE! Great morning chuckle. Thanks. Good reply!
I’m swapping in a Hyd. FT cam because I haven’t in hand and no money in the pockets right now. The lift is .497 @ 1.5 & 236@050 duration. Tires are 245/60/15 w/3.55 cogs.
 
Like I said in the other thread, I put one together in 1990 where the only new parts I put in it were rings/bearings/gaskets.
Reworked 675 heads, 340 cam, Performer....... made 290hp.
So, to me that’s the baseline number to shoot for.
Edit- found the sheets.....
Peak tq 328.7@4000, with 298.4@3000
Peak hp 293.9@5000, and still 285.1@5500


A few years after that I built a few 318 oval track motors.
Those could be 10:1 and use solid lifter cams.
Stock heads, no porting, valve size rule was 1.88/1.50, so I used 596 heads with ex seats to allow the 1.50 ex valve to be used.
The first one made right about 340hp.
Oh....... and that was with a stock 360 2bbl manifold and a Holley 4412 on it.
I built two of those motors. That team had two cars........ track and series championship winners that year.
The only Mopars in the field.

The rules remained unchanged for a few years, and I think I ended up getting those things up into the mid-350’s with some cam experimenting.
I’d have to see if I could find the sheets.
Edit-in 94 they were making low/mid-360’s hp, and mid/upper 350’s tq.
In 95 the intake rule changed to a RPM with a 2bbl carb adapter.
The tq picked up a few ft/lbs, but carried quite a bit better, and the motors were in the 380’s for HP. Still using a 4412 Holley.
Way back Holley used to make a 600 or 650 cfm 2bbl.
It was a large venturi carb with no boosters.
The OD of the venturi had a series of small holes that the fuel came out of, like a really large annular booster.
We had one to play with on the dyno. That thing made good power, but had pretty poor driveability/low speed operation.
It was worth 25ft/lbs and 30hp over the 4412 though.
383.6 tq@4500/416.7 hp@6300.
 
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>68 318 came with suck piston depth and pathetic cams. 7.5CR and <.373 lift? Yes, it will run forever because it was overbuilt and undercammed. Zero deck pistons and a 4bbl intake with headers and a cam, your back in the game. Its just the same price to build a 360 nowadays, actually the 360 has a much larger piston selection, so its easier.
 
If you’re doing a true minimalist bucks down “freshen up” type job...... how far you’ll have to go, and what it’ll cost is mostly dependent on the condition of the core engine you’re starting with.
If the crank finish and sizing is decent, and the bores don’t have any type of “damage”, you can get out of it pretty cheap if you’re doing most of the labor yourself.

In the 80’s when I was doing a fair number of these types of jobs, I’d always spend a few dollars at the machine shop having everything cleaned.
Hot tank the block and rotating assy, all the tin and covers.
Polish the crank, dingleberry hone bores, cam bearings, freeze plugs, dist bushing.
This way you’re starting out with something nice and clean.
The heads usually needed ex guides, and I’d have the seats done and decks cut, valves bead blasted and refaced.

Re-ring kit, cam and lifters, timing set, and usually valve springs if it wasn’t getting a stock cam.

Keep in mind....... the engines were 35 years newer than they are now.
 
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a clean short block is always nice. You saw what throwing a dirty rusty block together got our subject of the Tony and Nick show. But that vid actually had more info in it than gaffs: Look what you get when you scrape something together from a mishmash of parts and a hose. It pretty much highlighted everything that could go wrong short of reusing a head gasket that could go wrong with a quick build. Low oil pressure, leaking core plugs, wrong pushrods on a stock valvetrain when using a reduced base cam (pretty much all performance LA cams are reduced base to get the lift they need due to the cam bearing size and cam blanks). So watch and enjoy...better him than you. Nick didn't do anything wrong short of the oil pump suction gaff. He just chucked up a turd and dyno'd it. It wasnt up to him to diagnose the oil pressure issue and he found the preload issue too late to try and fix it but I doubt he could **** some longer pushrods or an adjustable valvetrain to throw on. Id still like to see a real 318 dyno'd at his shop: not a "built" but maybe a blueprint with manifolds and all. Then we could prove/disprove the 230 HP rating of the LA 318, Magnums not included.
 
Don't forget on the dyno the engine uses no alternator, fan, fuel pump, water pump or air cleaner and is tested using open headers.
could that produce an additional 40 HP?
 
I'd LOVE to see a 318 build thread that-

A- uses a "reasonable" cam.
Waay too many discussions end up with either "use a .700 lift/.500 duration cam and an 8,000 converter" or
"just use the stock .399 lift cam because nothing else is worth it"

B- understands that there are 2 (really 3) different stock 318 configurations (besides the poly and the Magnum)
with early LA and late LA rollers being 9.2:1 compression rather than the in between years advertised 8:1 and probably lower,
with at least the LA roller probably actually being 9.2.
 
Lelo Dart said:
What does this mean?
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It means all the nasty crap he's said about Tony Defeo so far in other threads ain't enough. He's gotta make another thread to keep pounding on the guy.
 
RustyRatRod said:
It means all the nasty crap he's said about Tony Defeo so far in other threads ain't enough. He's gotta make another thread to keep pounding on the guy.
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I dont think its pounding on the "guy" it's more like pounding on the poorly built engine. Giving newbies the opportunity to see the RIGHT way to do a bucks down engine. Believe it or not, I went back and looked at the comments, (on YouTube) UTG has even been called a "genius"... best engine builder in history, ect/ect. Theres far more talent on FABO imo
 
Back in the 80's I blew up my good 340. Because I was in the points program I found a bone stock 73 low compression 318 short block out of a rusted out Duster, and added the top end from my 340, pocket ported 2.02 heads, Street Hemi grind cam, Torker II intake, 750 carb, and 1 3/4 headers. That combo ran solid 13's with 3.91 gears and kept me in the class. I later upgraded to a new 360 short block when I had some money and it ended up running high 12's

old racecar.jpg
 
replicaracer43 said:
I dont think its pounding on the "guy" it's more like pounding on the poorly built engine. Giving newbies the opportunity to see the RIGHT way to do a bucks down engine. Believe it or not, I went back and looked at the comments, (on YouTube) UTG has even been called a "genius"... best engine builder in history, ect/ect. Theres far more talent on FABO imo
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Maybe so, but how easy would it have been to continue this in the other thread? I see it as beating a dead horse, runnin it in the ground kinda thing. I've never called him any of those things, nor have I seen it. Course I ain't seen everything on the net either.
 
I think RAMN was just kinda making a point about cost, and since the UTG 318 is fresh in everyone's mind, it's a good reference, kinda-sorta
 
My biggest beef with trying to “hop up” a 318, vs just starting with something bigger is, the bang for the $$$/hp per $$$ just isn’t that good.

If you have a decent core 318 to go thru, and that’s what you want to do....... great.
Put on a 4bbl, a little cam, maybe some bowl work.....
Then whatever it makes for power..... iiwii.
But if there is a hp target or goal...... and the number in mind is over 300-325-ish....... it’s probably cheaper to start with a 360.

But...... as has been mentioned..... some people just “want” the hopped up 318....... which is fine.
Just don’t cry about the cost if you’re “trying to make some power”.
 
About 7k into my 390 build. Don't think I will look back. Not about the money to some. It's about laughing at Chevy guys telling them they got beat by a 318... Ish
 
mini said:
About 7k into my 390 build. Don't think I will look back. Not about the money to some. It's about laughing at Chevy guys telling them they got beat by a 318... Ish
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Make sure you have 500 ponies cause every small block chevy is at least 500hp from what I've been told.
 
like it or not those readily bought LS'S are awesome and make tremendous power.
I like 'em all and the import stuff is getting interesting too. Keep the hobby strong!
 
YY1 said:
I'd LOVE to see a 318 build thread that-

A- uses a "reasonable" cam.
Waay too many discussions end up with either "use a .700 lift/.500 duration cam and an 8,000 converter" or
"just use the stock .399 lift cam because nothing else is worth it"

B- understands that there are 2 (really 3) different stock 318 configurations (besides the poly and the Magnum)
with early LA and late LA rollers being 9.2:1 compression rather than the in between years advertised 8:1 and probably lower,
with at least the LA roller probably actually being 9.2.
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Here is my old motor. Sold it in my 71 Duster 4 years ago. Ran mid 11’s at 3400 pounds on pump gas. Iron heads, 10.44 compression
Cam i ran was smaller than the original 247/247cam in the build
231/ 238@50


Iron-Headed Mopar 318 Magnum Engine- Popular Hot Rodding Magazine
 
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ir3333 said:
Impressive to say the least.
I have a hard time with the inexpensive part?
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nothing expensive about it at all really except custom slugs. Cheap rods, factory 340 crank with some tricks( not expensive) and second hand heads.
Even used a knockoff crosswinds airgap.
Carb i still have, its on the 360 in my Dart.
Big thing is attention to detail. I ran it with a factory water pump/ fan setup.
 
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