Lil Demon
Well-Known Member
I'm assuming 12 times. I was hating every second it wouldn't start so it may have been less times actually. The longest cranking session was at the most 5 seconds. It really pissed me off having to do that.
Solid cam damage diagnosis help
- Thread starter Lil Demon
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PRH
Well-Known Member
Straddle the lobe like this....... roll the cam back and forth to get the smallest reading.
Have the caliper way towards the front or rear of the lobe.
Get your smallest reading, then go to the opposite end(front or rear)of that same lobe...... take another smallest reading.
There “should” be .0015-.0020 difference.
From the pics...... if the cam is the real cause of the odd wear pattern..... I’d be expecting to see it be more like .0030+ taper.
I’d also see if you can determine if all the lobes are tapered in the same direction.
By the looks of your cam, they all “appear” to be tapered so they are bigger at the rear of the lobes.
Only 1/2 the lobes should be that way.
Have the caliper way towards the front or rear of the lobe.
Get your smallest reading, then go to the opposite end(front or rear)of that same lobe...... take another smallest reading.
There “should” be .0015-.0020 difference.
From the pics...... if the cam is the real cause of the odd wear pattern..... I’d be expecting to see it be more like .0030+ taper.
I’d also see if you can determine if all the lobes are tapered in the same direction.
By the looks of your cam, they all “appear” to be tapered so they are bigger at the rear of the lobes.
Only 1/2 the lobes should be that way.
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PRH
Well-Known Member
Howard’s is where they’re currently done.
PRH
Well-Known Member
This is how I check lobe taper for every flat tappet cam I put in an engine.
Only take a few minutes.
Also check for bend at the same time, and straighten them if needed.
That lobe shows just under .002 taper.
Only take a few minutes.
Also check for bend at the same time, and straighten them if needed.
That lobe shows just under .002 taper.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
PRH
Well-Known Member
I’ll be pretty surprised if that cam doesn’t end up having excessive taper.
Not to mention, they all appear to be tapered the same way, which is not correct for a SBM.
I’m pretty curious to know whether the lobe taper is actually all in one direction, as it appears to be from the pics....... or if there is another explanation why it looks that way.
There are really only two reasons why it would be ground with the taper all going one way.
1- whoever ground it didn’t know any better
2- they don’t like having to dress the grinding wheel the other way to put the opposite taper in 1/2 the lobes.
Not to mention, they all appear to be tapered the same way, which is not correct for a SBM.
I’m pretty curious to know whether the lobe taper is actually all in one direction, as it appears to be from the pics....... or if there is another explanation why it looks that way.
There are really only two reasons why it would be ground with the taper all going one way.
1- whoever ground it didn’t know any better
2- they don’t like having to dress the grinding wheel the other way to put the opposite taper in 1/2 the lobes.
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MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
I had a Hughes solid do that, it didnt look broke off, just a flattened angle no.7 and 2 one or 2 others-around 2002 iirr, had a mopar purple with porosity on a lobe as well, caught it during a refresh a bought another -same cam.
In the first post on that one lobe you might think there was some porosity issue, then the other lobe just looked wiped in typical fashion. It could have just have porosity issues and just looks broke off when it's just wiped and showing its shitty cast core, idk...I look at this stuff on my cell phone...so it's a guess at best mostly.
Some of the hughes engines we get in are disasters. There work and parts are far from quality.
Lil Demon
Well-Known Member
Hmm I’ll be doing the taper measurements tomorrow. While I really loved the performance and character of the Hughes cam I used and built my entire setup around that grind, some of the comments are making me consider another manufacturer. What is the higher quality cam manufacturer for solid flat cams?
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Howards grinds Hughes cams, on cores that Hughes has sent to them.
I’ll be stunned if the cam is ground wrong. It could be, but the guy running the grinder lost his mind or it was his first day on the grinder without supervision.
I do the same as PRH in that I put all my cams in between centers and make sure they have taper. Never seen one ground like PRH is saying, but I have no doubt he’s seen it, and I give him a good chance of being correct.
I also do every single lifter, every single time. There was a time when I’d stand at the lathe and spend hours going through 500 lifters at a time. IIRC the fail rate hit as high as 45%. They either had too little taper or the vast majority had a wedge cut on them.
That was the mid 2000’s and I still check them all.
The junk that makes it to market today is sickening.
Lil Demon
Well-Known Member
I agree on today’s quality I’ve seen the degradation of quality in automotive parts throughout. As for the lifters I spent several evenings on them making sure they would ride and spin freely in their respective bores and once I felt they were fit I washed it a down and assembled. I never thought I would be blueprinting lifters/bores but quickly saw the importance. As soon as I have a chance at the shop tomorrow I’ll be measuring all the lobes for taper.
I know there are a good many people here who've not had good luck with Hughes for one reason or another. For what that's worth.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Engle cams. KV3 or bigger , it's not listed but it and many other fast ramp grinds exist if you call and talk to Chris.
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Lil Demon
Well-Known Member
If it is a quality issue with my cam I’ll be really bummed.
Thanks for the lead, I had forgotten about Engle. I like that K7 and yes I was looking through the download trying to find the kv3. I will give Chris a call tomorrow thanks.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
I have always had good off the shelve performance and longevity from Crower and Isky cam regardless of the lifters
PRH
Well-Known Member
Funny...... “a good chance of being correct”.
Uuhhh.....just look at the wear pattern on that used cam.
The wear pattern shows you how the taper is staggered.
Just for grins, I just took a new SBM Comp custom and checked it for taper.
Right at .002....... with the taper staggered just like the used one in the pic.
That’s how they’re supposed to be...... and that’s how they are from the factory.
It’s very clear on all 16 lobes of this cam.
For each set of 4 lobes between journals...... the front two lobes are tapered so the rear of the lobe is bigger.
The rear two lobes are tapered so the front of the lobe is bigger.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Yeah, I understand that. To get the taper off like that cam appears to be would require the grinder to be an untrained rookie or a moron.
It happens. It’s hard to find people to do any kind of work like this. So that’s an issue.
I’ve got a custom Cam Motion cam and I forget what lifters that I need to check.
Spin those lifters!
PRH
Well-Known Member
As I said in post 41:
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
OP needs a new cam
Whatever anyone finds...Dave Hughes won't honor ****.
Buy from someone else is my advice.
What's funny ...is engle used to grind the cams for Hughes. When you look at the spring requirements for engle they're a spitting image 140 seat and 315-330...
Whatever anyone finds...Dave Hughes won't honor ****.
Buy from someone else is my advice.
512Stroker
We are all here because we are not all there.
Very interesting
YR what procedure do you use to "check lifters"?
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I put the, in the lathe and run an indicator across the face.
I was stunned to find lifters that were wedge cut.
We lost 4 or 5 cams in a 2 month period and the light finally came on...the issue wasn’t without break in procedure or break in oil or that. It had to be mechanical. There were lifters that had under .001 taper and some that were wedge cut.
We used to put the butt of 2 lifters together to check the convex grind. They should rock and you should be able to see the clearance around the edges. Solids and hydraulics are the same. The lifters need to spin and the cam lobe taper and lifter base shape make it happen. Rollers? You don't want those to spin! LOL
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