Custom mechanical fan builder

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kursplat said:
30%?! is that what march claims or did you measure and do the math?. the thermostat just sets the minimum temp and allows the motor to warm up faster. as long as it was working, it wasn't making the car run hot. you have a airflow at low speeds issue.

good luck
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To correct myself - the pulleys are over driven, but I'm not sure of the %, I mixed up the 30% number with something else. I agree i don't think the stat was the issue, but rather a poor pusher cooling system for a big motor.
 
72bluNblu said:
He shouldn’t need a fan if he’s driving more than 30mph or so for any length of time, but if he’s just stop light to stop light for awhile he absolutely will. Not enough information there to blame the fan.
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That's what I'm getting at. If it gets hot while cruising at a reasonable speed, the pusher fan isn't the issue and no fan replacement will fix it.
 
kursplat said:
ya, doesn't look like just 1" from the pic, weird...i think he's on an HDK K frame so i doubt the motor's in the wrong place :lol: velocity111, did you get the radiator cleaned out?
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Rad was cleaned a number of times, still a couple of particles in there as of today, but nothing close to what it was.
 
Velocity111 said:
A little bit of both.
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When does it get hot? Does it cool off if you pick up and maintain speed?

A pusher almost never works, but knowing whether you have a radiator/flow issue kinda helps establish whether the pulley system is worth keeping. At least that's my take..
 
HemiDenny said:
you already have the same radiator, and as we discussed during initial mock-up, we could duplicate what is on my silver Duster.....but you would have to loose the serpentine set up. Old school, March pulleys (STD drive), 180 stat, 18" fan, shroud, and the dreaded V belt....does cool like a MFer,

IMO, nothing will cool it if whatever the substance found in your radiator / coolant is not completely flushed
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I will call you tomorrow to discuss. scratching my head about switching over to your set up to fix this? If I have the same radiator, and water pump same snout size on your frame, why would you have room that I don't? If switching over will create the space and cool enough I'm game, not sure why we didn't do this in the first place?
 
Velocity111 said:
To correct myself - the pulleys are over driven, but I'm not sure of the %, I mixed up the 30% number with something else. I agree i don't think the stat was the issue, but rather a poor pusher cooling system for a big motor.
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Part #'s?

Like I said, 30% overdriven is still less than the factory AC ratio.

Phreakish said:
That's what I'm getting at. If it gets hot while cruising at a reasonable speed, the pusher fan isn't the issue and no fan replacement will fix it.
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Right, but he didn't say what kind of driving he was doing so you can't assume what the problem is. Not enough info.

Phreakish said:
When does it get hot? Does it cool off if you pick up and maintain speed?

A pusher almost never works, but knowing whether you have a radiator/flow issue kinda helps establish whether the pulley system is worth keeping. At least that's my take..
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Exactly, we need to know when it gets hot to diagnose whether it's fan or radiator or general cooling system. Like I said, not enough info to jump to conclusions.

A pusher can work if done right just like anything else. They generally don't work because somebody just slapped a pusher on to solve a cooling issue that wasn't a fan problem and are running a low CFM fan in combination with a mechanical, which the pusher lowering the cooling efficiency when the car is moving at speed. If run as a stand alone with a high enough CFM rating it can work just fine. Not my favorite, but totally workable.
 
Phreakish said:
When does it get hot? Does it cool off if you pick up and maintain speed?

A pusher almost never works, but knowing whether you have a radiator/flow issue kinda helps establish whether the pulley system is worth keeping. At least that's my take..
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start stop driving it gets hot. highway driving will stop the increase of temp, and may even drop it a couple of degrees, but it won't drop it back down to what I would think is normal operating temps. Typically it's just a slow and steady rise in temp past 200 degrees, then i shut her down.
 
kursplat said:
did you ever figure out what was in it?
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No. best description was it had the consistency of wet laundry detergent. very small chunks of this stuff - white in color, pinched ion between fingers it would disintegrate into tiny granuals. I asked the motor builder if this was caustic soda coming form the motor, and he confirmed that they use a jet washer with no media or soda. No idea where it came from or what it is, but pretty sure it had to come from the motor somehow.
 
How about a Meziere electric? 55GPM and you can control the flow with a PWM motor controller. Can even delete the stat with the motor control. That would give you more control over idle temp motor RPM and cruising...or plan B:
 
Another option is a 17" fan i got from something: 5/8 proud of the flange up front and 1 7/8 deep. 2.5 total blade depth. If you can space the fan as close as comfortable to the radiator you'll pick it up on the back end. If that still is not enough, you could trim the trailing edges of the blades. I think its a flex style on the trailing edges so its not going to get any deeper.
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72bluNblu said:
Right, but he didn't say what kind of driving he was doing so you can't assume what the problem is. Not enough info.
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That's what I was alluding to. That more info is needed because it matters when it gets hot just as much as it matters that it gets hot.
 
Velocity111 said:
start stop driving it gets hot. highway driving will stop the increase of temp, and may even drop it a couple of degrees, but it won't drop it back down to what I would think is normal operating temps. Typically it's just a slow and steady rise in temp past 200 degrees, then i shut her down.
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That doesn't sound like the fan is your only issue.

It's possible for a pusher to obstruct air at highway or cruising speed. If I were you, I'd maybe remove the fan entirely and try to get some 45+ mph cruising in and see if your temps are reasonable.

The crud in the coolant you describe sounds like it could be Flux from the manufacturing of the radiator. It should have been flushed prior to shipping, but who knows? It could also not be from the rad but I wouldn't rule it out.

Once warm, have you placed your hand on various parts of the rad core to see if there's any hot or cold spots? Maybe see if a buddy has a thermal camera. Would be interesting to see if the rad maybe has some hidden defects - long shot, but even I've got a little thermal cam so it's not too crazy of a possibility.
 
Your engine is actually further rearward than mine. Mine was moved to allow the valve covers to clear the factory blower motor protruding from the firewall. Your is blower motor delete and your transmission mount bolt sits perfect in the middle of the mount slot.....factory location

The serpentine is naturally a wider belt, but a quick visual tells me the belt grooves are further out on the serpentine pulleys. On my V belt set up, the water pump requires button head allen bolts to attach it to the housing because the groove rides on top of them and would contact a hex head bolt.

Likely need the (thinner) factory style alternator and P/S pump brackets.

Remember, I have an A/C compressor where your P/S pump is located. The A/C compressor is longer / wider where your pump is taller. Could always swap to the smaller compact P/S pump like what is going on your Dart.

Give me a call later this morning and we can spitball. It is load up day for trip to Carlisle early tomorrow morning.
 
Three things I would do BEFORE giving up on the current set up

1) flush the cooling system until clear. Might mean running thru several heat cycles. If whatever is in there is not completely out, we are chasing our tails.
I think it is residual product left from the original casting of the block that somehow got trapped and is gradually braking free and gumming up the radiator / thermostat opening.....but that is just my guess

2) install a 160 stat ( verify before installing) with a bleed hole

3) add a product called Water Wetter with new coolant mixture once it is completely flushed. I used it before. Claims it keeps temps lower and more consistent. Worked well in my first Hemi Duster with non aluminum radiator.
 
512Stroker said:
In my experience that is the best radiator
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I had to repost this, I pulled a floor jack out from under the fish, trying to move the front over a little , i bent the front splash pan and the griffin 2 row rad. , I tested it and no leaks , been running it for about 9-10 yrs now !
ANYONE TELL U A GRIFFIN AINT ANY GOOD IS FULL OF B.S. !!

IMG_0539 (3).jpg
 
pishta said:
How about a Meziere electric? 55GPM and you can control the flow with a PWM motor controller. Can even delete the stat with the motor control. That would give you more control over idle temp motor RPM and cruising...or plan B:
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Thats an idea.....
 
Velocity111 said:
start stop driving it gets hot. highway driving will stop the increase of temp, and may even drop it a couple of degrees, but it won't drop it back down to what I would think is normal operating temps. Typically it's just a slow and steady rise in temp past 200 degrees, then i shut her down.
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That sounds like a radiator problem. If it was just a fan problem, cruising at speed should lower the temperature significantly.

The other possibility is a water flow issue, but a 1.3:1 pulley ratio should be fine. What water pump is in it? 6 or 8 vane?

If you have the pulley matched to the proper pump an electric pump is just expensive. For a drag only car fine whatever. On the street I’d never use anything other than a mechanical pump.

famous bob said:
I had to repost this, I pulled a floor jack out from under the fish, trying to move the front over a little , i bent the front splash pan and the griffin 2 row rad. , I tested it and no leaks , been running it for about 9-10 yrs now !
ANYONE TELL U A GRIFFIN AINT ANY GOOD IS FULL OF B.S. !!

View attachment 1715558000
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Who cares? The important thing about a radiator is not how it stands up to a floor jack, it’s how well it cools the car. And the OP is not the first guy to have issues with a really expensive Griffin NOT cooling his car.
 
Velocity111 said:
What site are you referring to? Do you have a link to fan stash? The gap I have is 1", not much to work with.
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not a site, measured some from a personal stash.

you'll need about 3" radiator to belt/obstruction (other than wp snout) clearance to swing a 2" fan.
from your picture it doesnt look like you could swing a big enough blade to do any good.
 
Velocity111 said:
Thats an idea.....
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Cool but not very practical for the street.
You would be adjusting it all the time.
With the right T-stat the pump/pulley setup you have now should work fine.
You just need the right fan.
 
Not with a thermo temp controller, Hayden makes one with a pot that you can turn to adjust the cut in temp and there is another $99 on the market that does PWM that actually controls the speed of the DC motor pump. The fan is the sticking point. Your radiator relocation to the front of the support may be the plan that has to be.
 
pishta said:
Not with a thermo temp controller, Hayden makes one with a pot that you can turn to adjust the cut in temp and there is another $99 on the market that does PWM that actually controls the speed of the DC motor pump. The fan is the sticking point. Your radiator relocation to the front of the support may be the plan that has to be.
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Talked a little more with Denny, and I think we're going to take a look at redo-ing the pulley and accessories. Denny and others are running set ups that work just fine and keep them cool, I shouldn't have any less room than they do, so we're gonna take a look at that first - seems also it may be the least expensive and easiest strategy to solve the problem.
 
Velocity111 said:
No. best description was it had the consistency of wet laundry detergent. very small chunks of this stuff - white in color, pinched ion between fingers it would disintegrate into tiny granuals. I asked the motor builder if this was caustic soda coming form the motor, and he confirmed that they use a jet washer with no media or soda. No idea where it came from or what it is, but pretty sure it had to come from the motor somehow.
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Might be calcium deposits.

Have you done a simple voltmeter electrolysis test? Should be under .3 volts. Connect one side of voltmeter to body ground and dangle other in coolant.

Also check engine ground straps.

Do you mix tap water with coolant or water pump lube in radiator?
 
Interesting...

I put Peak 50 / 50 mix right out of the plastic bottle
No water except what is in the pre-mix.

Advanced is conveniently right down the street.
 
autoxcuda said:
Might be calcium deposits.

Have you done a simple voltmeter electrolysis test? Should be under .3 volts. Connect one side of voltmeter to body ground and dangle other in coolant.

Also check engine ground straps.

Do you mix tap water with coolant or water pump lube in radiator?
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Why dont you like water pump lube? It's just soluble oil
 
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