'67 Dart GT Vert Starter Relay problems

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davidcribbs

davidcribbs

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I have a '67 Dart GT Convertible that has had a parasitic draw that I was unable to find myself, and reluctantly ran it into my local mechanic. He struggled with it for a while, as it isn't always present. They finally nailed it down to the starter relay (3rd one I have had in the car since I owned it for six years), and they were able to let me hear how it is arcing inside the relay, but again it doesn't do this all the time. If you move the relay around you can hear it arcing inside, and the draw goes from non-existent, to .1-.5 amp, all the way up to a 5 amp draw.

I have installed a new harness from the bulkheads forward, installed electronic ignition, a large blue-tooth stereo amplifier, and a March pulley set-up with their 100 amp alternator, just to give some background.

The mechanic is recommending purchasing a Painless Wiring fuse block, and replacing the current starter relay, so here comes the question. Would this be the best alternative, and has anyone done this so I could get a part number? I have seen a couple of forums here that have possibly mentioned just upgrading to a different relay that might not be made in a sweat-shop in China, and if someone would have any information on what might work for this application, I would appreciate the help.
 
davidcribbs said:
I have a '67 Dart GT Convertible that has had a parasitic draw that I was unable to find myself, and reluctantly ran it into my local mechanic. He struggled with it for a while, as it isn't always present. They finally nailed it down to the starter relay (3rd one I have had in the car since I owned it for six years), and they were able to let me hear how it is arcing inside the relay, but again it doesn't do this all the time. If you move the relay around you can hear it arcing inside, and the draw goes from non-existent, to .1-.5 amp, all the way up to a 5 amp draw.

I have installed a new harness from the bulkheads forward, installed electronic ignition, a large blue-tooth stereo amplifier, and a March pulley set-up with their 100 amp alternator, just to give some background.

The mechanic is recommending purchasing a Painless Wiring fuse block, and replacing the current starter relay, so here comes the question. Would this be the best alternative, and has anyone done this so I could get a part number? I have seen a couple of forums here that have possibly mentioned just upgrading to a different relay that might not be made in a sweat-shop in China, and if someone would have any information on what might work for this application, I would appreciate the help.
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What brand of relay are you using? Strange, I have never heard of that issue. Sounds like a bad ground somewhere and a feedback issue. @Mattax
 
I think you have some sort of feedback loop. I think something amiss is attempting to send juice to the coil of the relay, likely the yellow "start" wire. You need a multimeter and or a test lamp. Measure voltages on the starter relay. The "big stud" is always hot full battery voltage.

The exposed "Square" terminal goes only one place....to the starter solenoid. it should be absolute zero

Both the "push on" flag terminals should be absolute zero. Measure everything connected as normal to ground.

Another thing you can do is to disconnect the battery ground and put a test lamp in series. Make certain EVERYTHING is off, including the trunk lamp, dome and glove box lamp. The bulb should be OUT. If it shows dim, pull the yellow start wire off the relay and see if the draw stops.

Post back here
 
Let me give a little more information. A portion of the time the relay acts just fine (no draw), then when the relay is moved (wiggled back and forth) you can hear it arcing within the relay. So the relay works fine part of the time. the internals are what is crap with the relay. I can throw another relay in there, and it might work fine for a little bit (don't know), but it will fail again. It is absolutely set up correctly, just wanted to know if anyone has replaced this piece with a Painless Wiring fuse block, a different relay that you have had luck with it working, or any other fix from someone that has replaced it with something different.
 
davidcribbs said:
Standard Motor Products
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There has to be an issue with your car/wiring if you are burning up relays or causing a draw. If you put a different brand relay on you will probably still have the issue.
 
Do you have one of the failed relays?

Carefully disassemble it and post some photos
 
davidcribbs said:
Let me give a little more information. A portion of the time the relay acts just fine (no draw), then when the relay is moved (wiggled back and forth) you can hear it arcing within the relay. So the relay works fine part of the time. the internals are what is crap with the relay. I can throw another relay in there, and it might work fine for a little bit (don't know), but it will fail again. It is absolutely set up correctly, just wanted to know if anyone has replaced this piece with a Painless Wiring fuse block, a different relay that you have had luck with it working, or any other fix from someone that has replaced it with something different.
Click to expand...

Here is the thing. IF it does have some sort of feedback issue that is trying to "sort of" energize it when "off" and cause a draw, it might be that it is "barely" making the contacts in such a way that they sit there and "burn." You need to get off your *** and do the tests I outlined and see if there is something there

Mopars have gone, many MANY of them, made it to the junkyard wearing their original factory starter relays. Those ARE NOT a big failure item.
 
I once tightened a starter relay (too much) and inadvertently twisted the contacts inside the bakelite and the starter cranked non stop until I disconnected the battery.
Is it possible you have been tightening the battery side nut of the relay a bit too much?
 
davidcribbs said:
The mechanic is recommending purchasing a Painless Wiring fuse block, and replacing the current starter relay, so here comes the question. Would this be the best alternative, and has anyone done this so I could get a part number?
Click to expand...
I don't have a lot to add to what has been posted other than this:
If the problem is in the starter relay, then for what reason would a new fuse block be installed?

Second question. Since current flow was measured down to tenths of an amp, on what wire was this measured? Presumably this was with key off? Yes?
 
Mattax said:
Since current flow was measured down to tenths of an amp, on what wire was this measured? Presumably this was with key off? Yes?
Click to expand...

And let's not forget stuff like alternator leakage.....................
 
Reminds me of one... While I was working at the Ford dealership a full size Bronco, parked and locked in first gear, decided to would go a short trip across a grocery store parking lot and try to climb a bank. Lucky it didn't hit another vehicle. Owner said he had just replaced the battery 2 days earlier. Fords starter solenoid ( about the same as our relay ) was the cause.
When the service writer asked, "Could ignition switch be bad? ( maybe just trying to sell parts and labor ) I replied "Nope, switch at clutch pedal interrupts that start circuit."
You do need to diagnose to determine is your ignition switch leaking current onto the yellow wire in positions other than start. Check relay ground path also. Its a set of contacts that should fully close or open and not chatter from faulty connections to its activating coil.
 
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