Your (educated) opinions on this Navy ship afire "Bonhomme Richard"

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67Dart273

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No idea what sort of in-port maintenance was going on, but Christ, ya'd think IN PORT there'd be facilities and personnel to call in and get that thing under control

Somebody said tonight it might not be worth repairing

The US Navy’s top officer wants answers on the Bonhomme Richard fire

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I know. It's odd, for sure.

I worked a couple of blocks from Norfolk Naval Base for three years and I just can't see them not being able to get a handle on the fire.
 
The article talks about being prepared to fight a fire. Isn't that like the ONLY thing they train for besides their main job.
 
Here's the biggest problem.

July 2020 fire

USS Bonhomme Richard on fire at Naval Base San Diego on July 12, 2020.
On 12 July 2020, an explosion occurred about 8:50 a.m. aboard Bonhomme Richard while in home port at Naval Base San Diego undergoing maintenance. The resulting fire was fueled by paper, cloth, rags or other materials, not fuel oil or other hazardous materials, Rear Admiral Philip Sobeck, commander of Expeditionary Strike Group 3, told reporters that evening.[17] Since the ship was in maintenance, on-board fire-suppression systems had been disabled, delaying the onset of firefighting efforts, according to Admiral Sobeck.[18][19]
 
Ships are very vulnerable when they're in the yards and have no on-board fire fighting capability. I went through a major overhaul on the ship I was on. Always made me make sure I knew the fastest way off that sumbitch.
 
The article talks about being prepared to fight a fire. Isn't that like the ONLY thing they train for besides their main job.
Those two things and shipboard security. But if the fire hoses aren't working I'm getting the hell off as quick as I can. Even if that means going in the drink.
Edit: Underway replenishment and fueling duties. Man overboard. Shining brass, painting, field day......
I'll remember more, lol.
 
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I’m not sure what the hell happened there, but what a **** show. Especially now with China flaunting it’s fleet. The Navy has a lot of explaining to do.
 
They would have very minimal shipboard duty section crew anyway in the yards.
 
I don't know. My question is, how does "THE NAVY" let one of their ships burn for FOUR DAYS? That's the part I want to know.
 
Dang, I didn't know they "disabled" fire suppression while in maintenance. That's too bad.

I did my time in the Army and Air Force, but I visited all the Navy bases around Norfolk for 4 years while working there and have the utmost respect for sailors. Those guys and gals work their asses off while underway.

I had the chance to attend a ceremony on the GW Bush and attended the Christening of the Ford. And I "coined" the Commanding Officer of NAS Oceana. Great times!

Changes will be made and they will be ready for the next one.
 
I don't know. My question is, how does "THE NAVY" let one of their ships burn for FOUR DAYS? That's the part I want to know.
My gut reaction? Same ole same ole. Politicians in charge of the budget instead of those in the know. "Hey Congress we need some fire fighting ships to protect what we have."
"Naw, let's build another carrier."
Just a guess. I've been out of the Navy for a long time.
 
It didn’t help that they pulled everyone off the ship after the initial fire started and let it free burn for a couple of hours. By the it had spread out of the well deck and was going through compartments. Once the fire burned through the upper deck you had a “chimney” effect going on and made it very hard to put out. Same thing happened on the USS Miami in Portsmouth.
 
Dang, I didn't know they "disabled" fire suppression while in maintenance. That's too bad.

I did my time in the Army and Air Force, but I visited all the Navy bases around Norfolk for 4 years while working there and have the utmost respect for sailors. Those guys and gals work their asses off while underway.

I had the chance to attend a ceremony on the GW Bush and attended the Christening of the Ford. And I "coined" the Commanding Officer of NAS Oceana. Great times!

Changes will be made and they will be ready for the next one.

Yep. Fire fighting systems disabled and damage control hatches blocked open etc etc.
I will say one thing I don't understand is you don't have to disable the entire ship's fire fighting system. You can do it in sections. And we were trained to be ready to fight a fire from another section of the ship if needed. Probably a personnel and training issue there too.
 
I can see it now. The fire watch was like, you smell something burning Bro. His battle buddy, no man it’s probably your breath kicking back in your face. Oh well I get off in an hr so if something is burning it’s a metal ship it will burn out. Yeah man **** it.
 
Not familiar with the LHD, but the LHA Tarawa class was the one I was on. Most compartments have the ability to be seaed off but the huge hangar deck (almost the complete underside of the flight deck divided in a for and aft section) as well as the vehicle deck and well decks (last 1/3 of the ship at waterline and 2 stories tall) are all completely open and can create a large fire if combustibles are stored there. Any other class of ship would have much smaller sealable compartments that would stop a fire from spreading. Carriers are very susceptible to fires due to the large open areas and fuel storage. The USS Forrestal fire of 67 was terrible account of what a fire on a carrier could do, but the LOX generators at the rear of the ship never exploded, If they would have, the entire rear of the ship would have been blown out of the water and the ship would have sunk with thousands of lives. My friend was on the Midway and was told if the LOX generators were to blow, there would be no hope. The Forrestal spent 5 months in dry dock and another 19 months to be completely repaired. That damage was much more extensive than the recent fire with 2 bombs cooking off on the deck...from John McCain's A-4E.
 
Yep. Fire fighting systems disabled and damage control hatches blocked open etc etc.
I will say one thing I don't understand is you don't have to disable the entire ship's fire fighting system. You can do it in sections. And we were trained to be ready to fight a fire from another section of the ship if needed. Probably a personnel and training issue there too.

Yep and they were in an avail for a couple of years meaning the Shipyard was taking care of everything for them. There were a bunch of tri-walls in the lower V that the crew was unloading to move back on the ship and this is where the fire started. Lots of fuel that probably went up pretty quick and overwhelmed the minimal duty section that was onboard on a Sunday. Figure an SBA cooked off and that was the explosion that everyone talked about and lead to everyone being pulled of the ship for a while.
 
Ahhhh. I was on a little DDG. I forget about those huge hanger decks.
 
Fighting a fire on any kind of ship is a nightmare. Naval ships are no exception.

The primary problem is that usually the fire is below decks. Well, any time a fire is below you, you have a serious problem. Like fighting a basement fire in a house. Smoke and heat rise, which means any access that you have to attack the fire below you is a chimney filled with smoke and heat, with temperatures that can be anywhere from 1,200° to 2,000° F depending on what's burning. So making an attack "downhill" is already a huge issue. If you can't make quick access and knock down the fire, you get cooked.

Then there's access. Large ships are compartmentalized, especially naval vessels. So sections can be sealed off, which is usually how firefighting operations work. The fire is compartmentalized and the poor bastards in that compartment are now very invested fire fighters. But the large compartmentalized structure also makes it VERY hard to say, advance a hose line from somewhere else. So if any of the firefighting systems are down, now you're stretching lines through hard to travel tight quarters for long distances. That's slow and requires a lot of effort. Since the ship was in port and under repair, not only are the fire fighting systems disabled, but there are very few people on the ship. So, even if the fire systems weren't down, and the compartments weren't locked open, you'd still have a lack of manpower to lock the fire down in a small enough compartment that a fire attack was feasible. This right here is an f*ing nightmare...

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Next up is ventilation. Not a lot of windows and screen doors :D. So very quickly the compartment with the fire fills with smoke. The faster the fire grows the worse the smoke is, and the compartment that the fire is in rapidly has smoke all the way down the floor, making visibility absolutely terrible, can't see your hand in front of your face. And then, there's the smoke itself. Smoke is made up of gases and hydrocarbons, both burned, unburned, and everything in between. It is also flammable at a hot enough temperature, so, when things really get going you get a flashover. Under the right conditions, smoke is fuel.

And then the heat. Naval ships are steel structures. Steel is a pretty wonderful conductor of heat. So the fire in the lower compartment raises the temperature of the compartment above it rapidly, to hundreds of degrees very quickly. Vertical arrangement of fuel is bad and spreads fire quickly. In something like a ship, the floor of the compartment above a working fire can get so hot it will burn you. It can get so hot the fire ignites the compartments above, even without direct flame impingement.

So the only option is getting to fires FAST and sealing them in a compartment small enough that it doesn't effect the whole ship. In port with few onboard that's not going to happen. And trying to make a fire attack from outside the ship is EXTREMELY difficult. They tried in this case, it didn't work well and firefighters were injured. Over 400 firefighters were involved and more than 60 people were injured in the event https://www.firefighterclosecalls.c...ivilian-firefighters-injured-at-sd-ship-fire/

This wasn't a case of "letting it burn". By the time they really starting fighting the fire it was too late- it was a case of not being able to put it out because of the conditions at hand. Honestly, the fact that the fire was controlled before the ship sank is impressive with the amount of time the fire burned. They may identify ways that they could have either prevented the fire itself, or would have allowed a fast enough attack that it was containable before it went large, but with an explosion that may not have been possible anyway. The USS Forrestal was already mentioned, that ship was at sea with a full crew, best case scenario for containing a fire if it was possible. But the aircrafts fuel tank ruptured and munitions detonated. A fast spreading fire involved too many compartments too quickly, and once it goes "global" it's very difficult to deal with. My old man went out on the USS Forrestal after it was repaired, he was an F-4 mechanic. The entire machinist deck's crew was lost in the fire, he was one of the replacements when it sailed again.
 
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