69 273 headlights wont turn on

-
Joined
Jul 23, 2020
Messages
15
Reaction score
5
Location
91001
i bought new headlights, i bought a new dimmer switch, and the headlights wont turn on. im new to this car scene, my grandfather who passed away gave me his car, and im been trying to work on it. Can anyone help me out, im lost.
 
Do you have voltmeter (multimeter) ?
If not, best thing will be to get one. A cheap one at lowes or harbor frieght will get you by. If analog, best have one where you can read 10 to 15 volts easily.

Depending on the car, you should be able to visually check the ground connection.
Headlight grounds
 
Last edited:
The headlights ONLY power (not park and tail or courtesy lamps) comes off a splice in the ammeter black wire circuit under the dash and goes direct to the headlight switch. From the switch, power goes to the dimmer, and then out through the bulkhead to the low and high beam headlamps.

Easiest thing to do first, is access the dimmer switch and turn on the lights. See if you have power on two of the dimmer terminals. Power comes in one, goes out on 1 or other of the remaining terminals to select high or low beam
 
Question: were the headlights working before? why did you replace them? why'd you replace the switch?
 
Go to myMopar.com and look on the refrence section. Download your factory service manual and wiring diagram.

When you pull on the light switch what does work?

And welcome to the most rewarding thing you will ever be a part of ( well maybe marriage and kids is more.... NAAAA!)
 
Question: were the headlights working before? why did you replace them? why'd you replace the switch?
they were never working, and now the altenator stopped working. I think there is something seriously electrically wrong with the car.
 
this is what im dealing with. today i just want to give up, but you guys inspire me to keep going

20200721_193939.jpg


20200721_193944.jpg


20200721_193950.jpg


20200721_194002.jpg


20200721_194011.jpg


20200721_194016.jpg


20200721_194020.jpg


20200721_194034.jpg
 
Well that's not a bad starting point. The initial learning curve may feel a bit steep. Whether you're willing to take it on and stick with it, no way for us to tell on this side of the screen.
Here's what I like about what I see, and think its a decent starting point.
The body is relatively 'straight' except for a couple big dents, and the rust looks to be moslty surface rust.
The engine bay looks relatively complete, clean, and mostly original.
(These days, original parts are often better quality than new replacement parts.)

Not sure why a 273 would be in a '69 Dart, but that's not too important right now. The body tag on the inner fender will indicate what the car original came with.
 
Looks like it is largely un touched which is a good starting point.

When you get your wiring diagram start studying it. These cars are relatively simple. The black box with the red sticker on it to the right of your master cylinder is the voltage regulator. In a nut shell battery voltage goes in one end and a different voltage comes out the other end. From there it goes to your aternator, to control the field strength to regulate the charging to the battery.

Many things could interior this and cause the alternator to stop charging.

By the way I am sure there are members in your area that if you bought them a beer would come over and help you work through some of the issues. If I still lived in OC I would be there in a heart beat, but I'm in Colorado now and it is a bit too far
 
Last edited:
OOOhhhh. V8 with AC! That's a keeper. Looks like a Ziebart car too. Good advice in post 3 and 5 above. Welcome to the A body world, Jordan. Best to get a test meter and learn to troubleshoot, it is cheaper that throwing parts at it.
 
they were never working, and now the altenator stopped working. I think there is something seriously electrically wrong with the car.

You can decide if you're up for tackling this.
For diagnostics, start with the battery, make sure its fully charged.
What or how did you notice that the alternator stopped working?

FWIW here's what I see in the engine bay.

The battery cable clamps (arrows) are the type used for quick repairs. These can fail by breaking, loose clamping of the wire, etc. So do at least a visual check of their condition.
In the white circle - not sure what that is. Its a location that was sometimes used for the voltage regulator but I'm guessing what we see is something aftermarket.
In the Red circle is the voltage regulator in the standard location.
upload_2020-7-23_23-53-12.png


The wiring at the alternator does seem to be a mess. Alternator itself is obviously a recent rebuild or replacement.
Fixing the alternator wiring shoiuldn't be that difficult.
One more item I don't recognize, but may be original and related to Clean Air Package.
upload_2020-7-23_23-56-49.png
 
You can decide if you're up for tackling this.
For diagnostics, start with the battery, make sure its fully charged.
What or how did you notice that the alternator stopped working?

FWIW here's what I see in the engine bay.

The battery cable clamps (arrows) are the type used for quick repairs. These can fail by breaking, loose clamping of the wire, etc. So do at least a visual check of their condition.
In the white circle - not sure what that is. Its a location that was sometimes used for the voltage regulator but I'm guessing what we see is something aftermarket.
In the Red circle is the voltage regulator in the standard location.
View attachment 1715566494

The wiring at the alternator does seem to be a mess. Alternator itself is obviously a recent rebuild or replacement.
Fixing the alternator wiring shoiuldn't be that difficult.
One more item I don't recognize, but may be original and related to Clean Air Package.
View attachment 1715566503
Those wires are to a ecater emissions system that got put on the car for some weird California law reason. I want it removed. If there is anyone who would to or could take the time to either voice or video call and help me out. I'd appreciate the help.
 
Something to do / remember when you remove ANYTHING, take lots of photos, bag and tag everything.

Even the CA add on emissions crap. Don't just cut wires if at all possible, some things that seem like they should go into the trash might be worth money to the right person.
 
Those wires are to a ecater emissions system that got put on the car for some weird California law reason. I want it removed. If there is anyone who would to or could take the time to either voice or video call and help me out. I'd appreciate the help.
Post some close ups of this cleaner air retrofit and maybe we can figure out what it does and how it was wired in.

For figuring out the electrical issues, you will need a multimeter and a clipboard or notepad.
I guess what you're thinking about a video call is that you could immediately show what the person was asking about. I can't help with that, but if you post photos we can walk you through this. The design of the main power and charging system is pretty simple. The routing has several junctions made with connectors where measurements can be made. Most of it can be done from the engine compartment side of the firewall.

The basic scheme is this.
Power is supplied from either the battery, or the alternator. The output from both is connected to the power feeds for the various circuits by a welded splice. When a circuit is closed, current flows from either power source to the welded splice then to the item(s) that will complete the circuit back to battery negative or alternator ground.
upload_2020-7-24_8-16-23.png


When the key is in RUN position power should be available in the wires labeled J2
upload_2020-7-24_8-19-36.png


When the voltage in the J2A wire at the regulator is less than 14 Volts, the regulator lets current flow through to the alternator's rotor. Current flowing through the wire windings in the rotor create an electromagnetic field. That's why those connections are labled field. The end result is power generated available to the output wire, labled R6.
 
You can decide if you're up for tackling this.
For diagnostics, start with the battery, make sure its fully charged.
What or how did you notice that the alternator stopped working?

FWIW here's what I see in the engine bay.

The battery cable clamps (arrows) are the type used for quick repairs. These can fail by breaking, loose clamping of the wire, etc. So do at least a visual check of their condition.
In the white circle - not sure what that is. Its a location that was sometimes used for the voltage regulator but I'm guessing what we see is something aftermarket.
In the Red circle is the voltage regulator in the standard location.
View attachment 1715566494

The wiring at the alternator does seem to be a mess. Alternator itself is obviously a recent rebuild or replacement.
Fixing the alternator wiring shoiuldn't be that difficult.
One more item I don't recognize, but may be original and related to Clean Air Package.
View attachment 1715566503
I ran the car, and put the multi meter on it and it was 12.17 while the car was running I took the negative terminal off and the car died right away
 
OK.
The 12.17 V at the battery suggests the alternator wasn't supplying power. And it tells us the battery is low.
It also tells us the battery has a half decent connection to the starter and the key switch.
If voltage was measured at the alternator output stud as well as at the battery we would know for sure the alternator is or isn't producing power.

In general, disconnecting the battery while the engine is running is not a good thing to do.
These cars have an ammeter in the battery feed/charge line. The ammeter will show if the battery is charging, discharging, or neither.
If the engine is running and the ammeter shows discharge, then the battery is supplying the power.


For diagnostics, start with the battery, make sure its fully charged.
Put the voltmeter probe or clip on the voltage regulator's feed (ignition) terminal.
It should be 0 V with key off, and system voltage with key in run.

IF the there is system voltage at the regulator, then check for voltage on at the regulator output.
With input voltage well below the setpoint, the voltage on the output (field) terminal should be the same.
If there's no voltage at all, the regulator is probably at fault. Could be an easy fix (sticking points) or something that needs replacing.
If there is voltage at the regulator's field terminal then check the alternator's field terminal.
 
I ran the car, and put the multi meter on it and it was 12.17 while the car was running I took the negative terminal off and the car died right away

This is an old wives tale. This is dangerous to electronics, and tell you NOTHING

1....It does not tell you if the thing is not charging because it simply may have been running too slow to charge

2....If it would have kept running it doesn't tell you the charging system is OK, because it might be damaged and still putting "just enough" out to run the ignition

Did you do what I suggested? Turn on the light switch and probe the dimmer switch. What to you read?
 
Post some close ups of this cleaner air retrofit and maybe we can figure out what it does and how it was wired in.

For figuring out the electrical issues, you will need a multimeter and a clipboard or notepad.
I guess what you're thinking about a video call is that you could immediately show what the person was asking about. I can't help with that, but if you post photos we can walk you through this. The design of the main power and charging system is pretty simple. The routing has several junctions made with connectors where measurements can be made. Most of it can be done from the engine compartment side of the firewall.

The basic scheme is this.
Power is supplied from either the battery, or the alternator. The output from both is connected to the power feeds for the various circuits by a welded splice. When a circuit is closed, current flows from either power source to the welded splice then to the item(s) that will complete the circuit back to battery negative or alternator ground.
View attachment 1715566574

When the key is in RUN position power should be available in the wires labeled J2
View attachment 1715566577

When the voltage in the J2A wire at the regulator is less than 14 Volts, the regulator lets current flow through to the alternator's rotor. Current flowing through the wire windings in the rotor create an electromagnetic field. That's why those connections are labled field. The end result is power generated available to the output wire, labled R6.

20200724_200108.jpg


20200724_200054.jpg


20200724_200036.jpg


20200724_200029.jpg


20200724_200022.jpg


20200724_200012.jpg


20200724_200005.jpg
 
OK. A web search shows that as one of several kits that sometimes had to be put on used cars in California.
Agree that if you can legally remove it, do so. Someone may want it, so you could try to sell it. It will probably be a slow sell.

Important thing is to understand what it is supposed to do so you can then return things back to factory.
From pics this post we can see there should be a coolant temperature sensor as well.
Find where the vacuum hoses with question marks connect.
Most likely one is connected to a vacuum source, maybe a ported vacuum source, and the other connects to the distributor's vacuum advance canister.
If so, then when removing the emissions device, simply connect the distributor vacuum advance to the ported vacuum nipple on the carburetor.

upload_2020-7-25_7-10-18.png
 
Electrical Circuits
Wipe all this down with a damp cloth so it will be easier to see.
The heavy red wire with a connector labled A is the battery feed/charge line.
It should connect to a 16 gage fusible link. What I see looks like a repair that may or may not be made with fusible link wire.
This is a critical connection as well as an important safety feature.
upload_2020-7-25_7-23-4.png


An original looks like this. Notice the terminal going into the bulkhead multi-connector has a molded insulation that seals out moisture and dirt.
upload_2020-1-14_18-30-48-png.png


Bill Evans makes and sells this decent looking reproduction.
upload_2020-7-25_7-33-39.png



On the voltage regulator, it looks like two wires in a harness wrap connecting at the bottom.
I believe that is correct for '69. Both are probably dark blue and one should be 16 gage and have a white stripe (aka trace).
The green wire connected at the top goes to the insulated 'Field' terminal on the alternator.
When the voltage is low, the regulator lets current flow through the green wire to power the alternator's rotor creating an electromagnetic field.
When the voltage is high, the regulator lets no current through.
upload_2020-7-25_7-40-52.png
 
Last edited:
Functionally 1969 works the same way as illustrated before.
The only difference is the junction for the ignition and voltage regulator is located at the regulator instead of the ballast resistor.
upload_2020-7-25_7-54-30.png


When the engine is off, or for any reason the alternator isnt producing power, current will flow from the battery when a circuit is closed.
For example, key off, parking light on.
upload_2020-7-25_8-0-35.png


Furthermore, as long as there is no resistance in the lines, the voltage should be the same in all the wires connected to the battery.
In reality there may be a small drop in voltage at the connections and switches the current is flowing through.
Something like this would not be out of the ordinary.
upload_2020-7-25_8-9-5.png
 
If you need to replace the fusible link, this thread has pics and descriptions of removing the multi-connectors.
question on the main harness plug on firewall

If working on the harness you may want a roll of nonadhesive electical tape (harness tape) and if any of the original terminals need replacing, do a search here for Chrysler open barrel terminals so you can get the correct crimper and terminals.
 
20200724_200022-jpg.jpg


Bottom row. E31 is the engine code for 273 cid v-8.
According to the dealer's book, that was standard cost option - at least early in the model year.
The 1970 Hamtramck Registry - 1969 Dodge Dealership Data Book - Dart
D31 sales code isn't shown in that particular booklet, but its probably the 904 automatic.
L is dart, second L is lower option/cost base model. 23 is two door hardtop.
Looking at the sale book, H51 is the code for A/C equipped and I see it in the second row. Nice!
We see headrests and shoulder belts, the former became standard option around Jan of '69.
 
Jordan, you are in GOOD hands with Matt (Mattax) he knows his stuff and is explaining it in terms EVEN I can understand.

My only word of caution is don't try to fix everything at once. right now the no charge issue is the #1 issue, then the lights, then the Smog device. since the engine will run with the smog device attached leave it alone for now.

Down the road I am 99.9% sure you can remove the smog device legally I recall there was a court case that ruled the State overstepped its authority by requiring the installation of them ( My / My dad's 67 Dart had a similar device at one time.) it has been smog checked many times in CA without it and passed every time.
 
-
Back
Top