Loggato
Well-Known Member
Engine has been sitting for MANY years. I imagine there is some steel under the rust, but should I save myself the embarrassment at the machine shop by even asking if they want to regrind those valve seats??
413 cylinder heads... are these toast??
- Thread starter Loggato
- Start date
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Plymouth 65
I'll be in the shop
Wow, IMO by the time you get those heads back in working order you'll have more money into them than a new set of aluminium heads. 65'
BigBlockMopar
BigBlockMember
Drop them in a large tub with citric acid (safe) to get rid of the rust to help the machineshop out if you want.
I tend to think it looks way worse than it is, but a different pair of heads can be found everywhere.
I tend to think it looks way worse than it is, but a different pair of heads can be found everywhere.
A vinegar bath will also remove all of that rust and cheaply too.
IMO, by the time you get all the rust off and get them built, you could have bought aluminum heads. Those are pitted badly. No amount of vinegar or acid or evaporust will remove pits.
IMO, by the time you get all the rust off and get them built, you could have bought aluminum heads. Those are pitted badly. No amount of vinegar or acid or evaporust will remove pits.
Treblig
Well-Known Member
Burnt toast!!!
I thought those were the 516 Closed Chamber Heads by looking at them, sure enough if you read the casting numbers.
Non hardened valve seats, the exhaust valves sink on those.
Did a set of those to keep a 1967 383 all original. By the time I bought all new valves, springs, valve seals, hired the machine shop to install the new hardened exhaust seats and do the valve job, and waited 6 months for the machine shop to get the work done.
$1000.00 dollars later I had a nice set of 516 closed chamber heads to bolt on.
After this experience is the day I started doing all my own valve jobs in house.
Non hardened valve seats, the exhaust valves sink on those.
Did a set of those to keep a 1967 383 all original. By the time I bought all new valves, springs, valve seals, hired the machine shop to install the new hardened exhaust seats and do the valve job, and waited 6 months for the machine shop to get the work done.
$1000.00 dollars later I had a nice set of 516 closed chamber heads to bolt on.
After this experience is the day I started doing all my own valve jobs in house.
PRH
Well-Known Member
Depending on what the machine shop labor costs are in your area...... those look like a $1000-1500 bill.
There are smarter ways to spend $1000+ on heads.
There are smarter ways to spend $1000+ on heads.
What were you going to do with them? You should be able to find better heads than trying to save those. What you gain in compression, you loose more in air flow.
Loggato
Well-Known Member
I will be doing whatever is the most cost effective. And my plan A is to save these heads if possible. Currently the couple of valve seats that are serious rust are my biggest threat. I'm thinking I'll dissemble them, soak them in muriatic acid and then see just what I'm up against.
Previously on a 390 Ford, I was able break everything free and clean the seats up by just lapping them which it looks like I can do with most of these. They turned out pretty good.
Previously on a 390 Ford, I was able break everything free and clean the seats up by just lapping them which it looks like I can do with most of these. They turned out pretty good.
Treblig
Well-Known Member
If I'm seeing it correctly, it looks like one of those valves broke off and rusted into the valve guide. Not sure how you can fix that, the guide would be destroyed when you try and get the rusted valve stem out???
Loggato
Well-Known Member
it's possible that the guides wont make it out alive.
I always thought it was interesting on Ma Mopar's 1967 383, 325 hp, 10:1 cr, 516 closed chamber head, engine build.
The 516 heads had the small exhaust valves, so to compensate Ma Mopar did a split grind on the stock camshaft, keeping the exhaust valve duration open longer to help in expelling the exhaust gasses from the cylinders.
The 516 heads had the small exhaust valves, so to compensate Ma Mopar did a split grind on the stock camshaft, keeping the exhaust valve duration open longer to help in expelling the exhaust gasses from the cylinders.
Will be fun to see what those rusted heads look like after a 48 hour vinegar dunk. Will then probably have to wire brush them down, tap on a few things and see what loosens up. Sand the burrs off the valve tips so he can get them out. If things are stuck yet, back in the vinegar tank again for another 12 hours. Maybe even a 12 hour dunk after that, in diesel fuel too if things are really stuck, that will cut the carbon.
Usually the exhaust guides are the one that are wore enough to need attention. If he is lucky he could knurl them and go again.
Let's wish him luck and see what he can do with these heads.
A new set of valves solve a lot of problems and help tighten up the guides, if he can get past the rust pitting in the seats.
Good Luck Loggato !
Loggato
Well-Known Member
I appreciate your optimism! This would be a terrible hobby without it haha!
I've saved some similar lookin junk before so go for it. You never know. They might clean up.
Krooser
Building Chinese Free Engines since 1959...
I have saved worse.
Have the shop run them thru their shot blast cabinet.
My last early Hemi builds head's were just as bad...the pitting in the chambers won't be an issue.
I have a 55 DeSoto Hemi head I use as a door stop...one day I'll clean that one up, too.
Have the shop run them thru their shot blast cabinet.
My last early Hemi builds head's were just as bad...the pitting in the chambers won't be an issue.
I have a 55 DeSoto Hemi head I use as a door stop...one day I'll clean that one up, too.
6PakBee
Well-Known Member
Do you have the ability to install valve seats and if so what tooling are you using to do that?
Through this past experience I now look for cylinder heads that originally came with the hardened seats, so I don't need to replace them.
Usually just a quick touch with the valve seat grinder and put in brand new valves, then lap in the new valves at the end for a good seal.
For the needed valve guide work I do the Knurling then resizing process so that fits well with the new valves. Any milling, we have to send them in for that.
Kind of interesting and old time mopar dude was coming to the end of his run and donated all of his valve grinding and guide knurling tools to my mopar friend Brian. The guy wanted to see them get into good hands so they could continue to keep other mopars going into the future. The guy has past away now, but his dream and the tools still live on now though our hands.
The valve tools reside here at my shop now, and Brian has the Cam Bearing install tool that the guy donated too. Brian is the Cam Bearing install pro now.
Here are the 302 Closed Chamber heads that are on my '76 100 with the 318 in it. Heads came with the hardened seats and the valve guides were in great shape, just installed the new valves and new valve keepers and new single springs.
So Yeah, so far so good. Working out Nice . . .
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