thermostat removal

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northeastmopar

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I have a 416 stroker 340. I have a griffin radiator with custom built griffin shroud and twin electric fans. Edelbrock heads and doug headers. They other day I drove a bit. It was about 93 degrees. My autometer temp guage crept up to 210 and I was getting a little nervous. I have a 160 degree thermostat. I also installed the higher flow mopar water pump. My question is, would I get better cooling if I just remove the thermostat all together? I do not drive the car in the winter? Also, I found my autometer gas gauge to be way off. My autometer voltmeter was readin 10-11 volts but when I put a fluke meter to the battery, it showed the alternator charging at 14.5 volts, so I am assuming that the volt meter by autometer is not accurate as well. which makes me wonder about the autometer temp gauge? How can I test for a more accurate reading and are there gauges that are better than autometer? Thanks.....
 
No. The thermostat is in the system to regulate the temperature.
 
Correct thermostat will not control the over all operating temp, just the minimum operating temp. Harbor freights sells cheap thermo guns can try that.
 
They other day I drove a bit. It was about 93 degrees

I also installed the higher flow mopar water pump.

The stat controls the MINIMUM coolant temp.... unless it is defective.
The system efficiency controls the MAXIMUM coolant temp.
Maximum efficiency usually occurs between 30 and 45 mph.
If you are having troubles above say 35 mph, then you have a system problem; usually a too small rad, or not enough air flow thru it or a coolant circulation problem,; unless the stat is stuck.
If you are having troubles below 30 mph, this is usually a fan/shroud/circulation problem.... unless the stat is stuck.

To prove the stat is Ok you can remove it; but then you have to install a flow-restrictor, to simulate the flow that the stat was supposed to provide. You can buy a restrictor, or you can make your own by just gutting an old stat.

They say, and I have no way to argue it, that if you completely remove the stat, it will upset the circulation pattern designed into the system, by Ma-Mopar. The end result they say, could be localized hot spots in spite of what the temp gauge says. Since those guys were way smarter than me, I don't question that stuff.

Your pump should have had an anti-cavitation plate attached to the vanes.
Your lower rad hose should have an anti-collapse spring inside it.
Most of us severely restrict the bypass hose, forcing most of the water to dead-head at the stat. I left about a pinky-sized hole for bypassing when the engine is cold, and I use the heater core for a bypass off season (blocked in summer) and for emergency; which I have never had to use.
On your combo, You might want to consider your cruise-timing, which I imagine should be between 42 and 56 degrees depending on the actual cruise rpm. Retarded idle and cruise timing produces heat, most of which goes into the exhaust, but it has to go thru the exhaust ports to get there.... while it is still burning. And, since the piston is rapidly falling, exposing more and more cylinder to the hot expanding gasses, the heat short-cuts into the water jacket. What I'm saying is your engine needs a working vacuum-advance system.
And your carb should be getting fresh cold air.

An IR gun is highly recommended. Find the hottest spot just below the stat, and mark it. Then compare all future testing at that spot.
Idling with the hood closed is a good test to see what is going on. If you can stabilize the idle temp, then you are well on your way to solving heat issues.
 
Put in a high flow 180 T stat. All you got now is the the water gets to 160, the Tstat opens and it stays open and acts like a restrictor, Get rid of that 160.
 
My big block makes 525 HP, aluminum heads, intake and Stock style aluminum waterpump. I have a 22" Smiths aluminum rad, 3" tanks and 2 large 1.5" rows. My car ran warm all the time until i got rid of that waterpump, and replaced it with a Flow cooler high flow waterpump. Best money i ever spent was on that flow cooler pump. I bought a Robert shaw 180 high flow Tstat as well. Result = tstat opens at 185 on the gauge, closes at 175. Then repeat.
 
I have a 416 stroker 340. I have a griffin radiator with custom built griffin shroud and twin electric fans. Edelbrock heads and doug headers. They other day I drove a bit. It was about 93 degrees. My autometer temp guage crept up to 210 and I was getting a little nervous. I have a 160 degree thermostat. I also installed the higher flow mopar water pump. My question is, would I get better cooling if I just remove the thermostat all together? I do not drive the car in the winter? Also, I found my autometer gas gauge to be way off. My autometer voltmeter was readin 10-11 volts but when I put a fluke meter to the battery, it showed the alternator charging at 14.5 volts, so I am assuming that the volt meter by autometer is not accurate as well. which makes me wonder about the autometer temp gauge? How can I test for a more accurate reading and are there gauges that are better than autometer? Thanks.....

No. What you have right now equates to no thermostat at all because it's open all the time. You need a thermostat and a 160 ain't it. You need either a 180 or a 195. The thermostat has zero to do with how hot the engine runs. All it does is regulate the minimum operating temp, not the max. The max operating temp is regulated bu the radiator and "the rest" of the cooling system.
 
No. What you have right now equates to no thermostat at all because it's open all the time. You need a thermostat and a 160 ain't it. You need either a 180 or a 195. The thermostat has zero to do with how hot the engine runs. All it does is regulate the minimum operating temp, not the max. The max operating temp is regulated bu the radiator and "the rest" of the cooling system.


This is correct.

So the answer is not the thermostat (you need a Stewart Components high flow thermostat), the answer is why can’t your cooling system control the temp much closer to the thermostat opening temperature.

You have issues, one of which IMO is going to be the electric fans and whatever shroud used to mount them and probably your pulleys.
 
I already had one thermo that was junk. Had to buy another. I do have a milwaulkee IF heat gun I can use. The folks at griffin radiator built the shroud to fit tight and installed the two fans on the shroud. They told me that the radiator would cool the heck out of the car. They even installed the small rubber flaps at the top and bottom of the shroud for air to pass at high speeds. Fans seem to run all the time. The relays are set at 165 off and 185 on, so they are always on.
 
I already had one thermo that was junk. Had to buy another. I do have a milwaulkee IF heat gun I can use. The folks at griffin radiator built the shroud to fit tight and installed the two fans on the shroud. They told me that the radiator would cool the heck out of the car. They even installed the small rubber flaps at the top and bottom of the shroud for air to pass at high speeds. Fans seem to run all the time. The relays are set at 165 off and 185 on, so they are always on.


When the shroud is so close to the radiator, and it has flat surfaces parallel to the core, the shroud is about worthless.

Look at the design of an OE shroud. You’ll see it isn’t up against the radiator and has a generous radius going from the radiator to the fan.
 
Standard thermostats can be a flow restriction. Measure the diameter of the opening. The EMP/Stewart/Robertshaw ones are around 1 7/16". If you 'stat opening is around 1", a high flow will make a HUGE difference.
 
I test every thermostat before installing with a pan of water and a thermometer. You might test 2 or 3 to get 1 good one.
 
I already had one thermo that was junk. Had to buy another. I do have a milwaulkee IF heat gun I can use. The folks at griffin radiator built the shroud to fit tight and installed the two fans on the shroud. They told me that the radiator would cool the heck out of the car. They even installed the small rubber flaps at the top and bottom of the shroud for air to pass at high speeds. Fans seem to run all the time. The relays are set at 165 off and 185 on, so they are always on.

Yeah , they told me that my rad. would cool 800 h.p. , but wont with elec. fans , I run the very short fan clutch and a 6 blade 17'' mech. fan .
FULL MECH.FAN IS WORTH ABOUT 8 DEGREES W/O THE CLUTCH TOO --ON MINE .
 
Am I the only one not concerned about seeing 210 on a temp gauge?


It depends. Of you don’t care about wasting power or detonation resistance then 210 is fine.

I’d rather get the cooling system in shape and run it at 180 and make more power and reduce detonation possibilities.
 
It depends. Of you don’t care about wasting power or detonation resistance then 210 is fine.

I’d rather get the cooling system in shape and run it at 180 and make more power and reduce detonation possibilities.

I agree w/ y rose , but mine dont run right untill it hits 190 to start with , I `m comfortable w/ anything under 210 ------
And that aint that bad in all seriousness if most everything is right .
 
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