'65 Valiant Convertible: Mostly ignored for over 20 years

-

Kern Dog

Build your car to handle.
FABO Gold Member
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
9,674
Reaction score
27,712
Location
Granite Bay CA
In 2013, I agreed to do body and paint on a 1965 Plymouth Valiant Convertible for a friend and fellow member of our local car club. He bought the car in 1998 as a rusty but mostly complete slant six automatic in DD1 blue with a black top. He had a flaky guy do some rudimentary rust patch work but the guy just disappeared and left him with a stripped down car and no skills to complete it.
I recall going by the owners house occasionally and the car was always in the driveway, under a tarp. He would sometimes talk of the plans he had for it. 340 4 barrel, 4 speed, 8 3/4 axle with 3.55s, bright metallic orange with a tan convertible top. He wanted to use a '65 Barracuda grille and Formula S emblems to build a car that was never built: a Formula S Barracuda Convertible. It was going nowhere though because....He had mechanical skills but couldn't weld, do bodywork or paint.
One day, he spoke of the car again. He was at a crossroads. He saw the stillborn project as a bit of an eyesore and was thinking of selling it. Out of respect, I offered to do the body and paint when he told me that he would give me all of the spare parts that he had accumulated over the years. He told me about the good parts and I got excited thinking about the money I could make!
I'm talking parts like emblems, lenses, grilles, headlight bezels, V8 center links, 8 3/4 Sure Grip 3rd members...Plus some 71 Road Runner parts. Fenders, grilles, hoods and some interior parts. All of it was good for selling at swap meets so .....I rented a tow dolly and proceeded to tow the car to my place along with 3 truck and trailer loads of parts. As I started loading all the stuff (By myself, this guy never carried a single thing), I started noticing that A LOT of it was useless....13" wheels, rotted door panels, rat chewed seats, rusted bumpers, 9" drum brake assemblies, 2 barrel intakes, plugged radiators, 2 dead 273 engines...Oh well. There are a LOT of good things to sell and the other stuff can be sold for scrap to make a few bucks.
It seemed a bit strange when he insisted that I also take parts unrelated to body and paint. Interior parts, exhaust, the 340 he was going to use, the 4 speed and rear axle, etc. I recall saying..."Why take this?" He was insistent that I take everything.
Occasionally when we'd talk about the project, he'd say things like When we build the engine or When we get around to doing the suspension and brakes...I simply thought he was including me rhetorically.
Fast forward 2 years.
I had other cars I had in the schedule to restore and sell first. He was okay with that. I was putting together some money to buy the Wife a car and I didn't want to make payments. I sold 4 cars and a bunch of parts, saved and worked some side jobs. We ordered the Challenger in January 2015 and it was delivered in March. This was the first new car that I ever paid for outright. It felt great!
By Fall 2015, it started to dawn on me that this guy was expecting more from me than just body and paint. Somehow in his mind he either developed the belief that "Paint the car" actually meant bodywork, paint, assemble, suspension, brakes, steering, engine, clutch, trans, driveline, axle, exhaust and every other dang thing.
I finally confronted him one day and found that my guess was correct. He really did misunderstand me. He thought I was going to do everything on the car except the interior. I made maybe $2500 on the sale of the extra parts and somehow THIS is enough to pay for building a car for a guy? He seemed shocked when I reminded him that I only offered to paint it. He was stubborn too...He refused to accept that he misunderstood me.
I started a thread on this forum asking the opinions of the members. The overwhelming majority of the responses were on my side.
I wrote an email, stating my side as clear as I could. I included the opinions of the members of FABO, FBBO and a few other friends. I told him that I was still willing to honor the original deal. I'd tow it back to him painted and ready to assemble, along with all the best parts he had given me.
IMG_2826.JPG
 
Last edited:
In the email, I offered up 2 scenerios. I could do the body and paint and tow it back to him to finish at his place or I could bring the car back as it was and pay him for the parts I sold. It took a couple of days but when he responded, he admitted that he must have heard me wrong and he still thought that the deal was that we would build the car together at my place. He admitted that even if painted, he would never be able to assemble the car and get it done on his own so he had a 3rd option: For me to pay him and keep the car.
I took him up on his offer.
That was January 2016.
 
It was clear that he saw me as a nice guy that he could use to get his car done. He got rid of a BUNCH of junk without lifting anything. Seriously, in 5 trips 44 miles round trip, the guy didn't pay for gas, the tow dolly, didn't carry a single box or part to the truck.
I made my money back on the deal but here it is now 4 1/2 years later and the next chapter is ready to begin.

In 2015, I painted THIS car for a buddy:
IMG_1114.JPG
IMG_1118.JPG

'64 Valiant. 360-727-8 3/4" axle.....

5 8 mikee.JPG
 
Blue Valiant guy has a buddy that wants a classic car to cruise and have fun with.
I am busy with my '70 Charger project....
XH 33.jpg


Repair 30.jpg
2 XH B.jpg


The convertible sits and sits.....
"Pepper" likes the car so we made a deal. I'll do the body and paint BUT he is going to take it and get it running first. I like this better. Of all the cars that I have done here, it is so much easier to have a car that can move on it's own rather than to have to push it myself.

IMG_2824.JPG

The drivetrain will be different. We're going with a stock 318, a later slip yoke 904, a '66 Valiant steering column with mechanical shift linkage, FMJ based 11" front disc brakes and an 8 1/4" axle with 2.71 gears. The axle came from my '70 Charger. I relocated the spring pads to the A body width last week.
Work begins tomorrow. Stick around...
 
Awesome save on the '70 charger. As far as the Val vert, the best way would have been to put in writing what you were willing to do/trade etc, burn 2 copies and have the dude and you sign both. Word of mouth sometimes gets lost on people. I cannot count the times that what I have said was misinterpreted. This is why you put it in writing. If you got something in writing like that, it's a contract and locks in both parties to what is expected from each. I know it sucks to do business that way, but unfortunately that's how it is. It's gotten to the point where I will only work on my own broken ****, and nobody else's broken ****. Ya sure father in law is bringing his car over for brakes, but that's family, so in most cases that's different, and he payed me for the cost of the parts. Sometimes even family will try to take advantage of you too though SMH. Glad there was a decent outcome to it. In the end you did the right thing. Honestly I think he just wanted it all gone. It took 4.5 years but everybody is happy in the end, and it sounds like the Val Vert has a new lease on life with a new owner and a brighter future. It's all a win, win, win.
 
Sounds like a similar agreement that I had with a local Florida member here. I am glad that he put some things in writing, but after he had had my car for two and a half years, very little has been done to it, although many parts are missing off of my parts cars that I provided. For one car, the entire front clip disappeared. It doesn’t seem like he is going to get my car done and all he has is excuses for why he can’t get it done. Too hot, too cold, too much pain, too depressed, to many other projects to do... and yet I see him buying and selling and fixing things for others. I don’t know what to do. I am not as aggressions argument is as a lot of you.
 
Good progress today. The weather was tolerable.
First up, put the car in the air...
Val 1.jpg
Val 2.jpg
Val 3.jpg


It had a small bolt 7 1/4" rear. No surprise there BUT the diff cover had that old school yellow marking ink that old junkyards used to use.

Val 5.jpg


Of course, being an original slant six car, it had the small 9" rear brakes.


Val 6.jpg
 
Last edited:
Out with the 7 1/4, in with the '70 B body 8 1/4" with 2.71 gears and 10" brakes.

Val 7.jpg
Val 8.jpg
Val 9.jpg
Val 10.jpg

This dude is wider than I expected! The stock 13" small bolt pattern wheels were not going to fit so I grabbed some 14 x 5.5 rallyes without tires. The rim edge barely cleared the fender lip, meaning any sidewall bulge would make contact.
I've put B body axles in several '67 and later A bodies but never in an early A. Tight fit! I found 2 narrow 14 x 4 1/2 wheels and put 205-75-14 tires on them. The stance is a lot wider but they clear. There is about 4 inches of clearance in toward the leaf springs so if the owner wants, he can fit a 7" wheel in there with room to spare.

Val 14.jpg
Val 15.jpg
Val 35.jpg
 
Last edited:
The front....
9 inch drum brakes !
Val 7B.jpg
Val 13.jpg

It has been a little while but just to recap:
When switching from 9 inch drums to the 1973 and later disc brakes, several things change. Upper control arms do because the upper ball joint is larger on the newer cars. The lower ball joints are different, spindles/knuckles, about the only part that stays is the lower control arm.

Left side:
Val 16.jpg

New KYB shocks....Not my favorite but they were in the stash of parts so we used them. 11" discs, the spindle/knuckles are from a Diplomat/Gran Fury/Fifth Avenue. I like running the calipers to the rear and using the later model brake hose. With every car I have done, the UCA cams are always set to max caster as a starting point. The stock torsion bars will be kept in place for now.

Val 18.jpg

Rebuilt manual steering box, courtesy of Firm Feel. NEW Idler and Pitman arms, V8 center link. The tie rods are junk but for now, they stay.

Val 17.jpg

I hit a bit of a snag on the right side. The lower ball joint had some damaged threads so the owner decided to order a new one. It came in a few hours later but was the wrong side. I decided to take a file and a grinder to the threads to clean them up since nobody around had a 9/16" fine thread tap to clean the threads.
It took several attempt to get the threads cleaned enough to thread a nut all the way down.
We used new strut rod bushings.
 
Every early A body owner that wants to run dual exhaust has probably dealt with this:
Val 24.jpg


These cars were designed for a slant six engine. There is evidence everywhere of that from the indentation on the RH fender apron for the alternator, the shallow steering center link, the 9 inch drum brakes and this transmission crossmember built with a hump on only the drivers side. Years ago I modified the torsion bar crossmember for dual exhaust but I ended up using the trans crossmember on THIS car:

Dart 3.jpg
 
The modification is actually pretty simple.
You can see the 2 cuts made on the sides of the crossmember. After making the cuts, the bottom section just gets hammered up to form a curve, then it gets welded up.

Val 21.jpg


Val 32.jpg

Val 33.jpg

Val 31.jpg

The net result is that you get about 1 1/4" more room to tuck up the right side exhaust pipe. This car will likely get the old exhaust pipes from the blue Valiant. The blue car now has headers and will get new pipes from the collectors back.
The 318 going in this car is a van engine of unknown mileage . I don't recall how well it ran but it wasn't knocking when it ran before. I have no idea where the 904 I have came from. If this car were mine, I'd look for a later 904 with the lower 1st gear. There is an '87 Fifth Avenue in a local junkyard. Those were decent transmissions and they also had hydraulic lockup converters. This car could get 20 mpg or better with the 2.71 gears and 26" tires.
Next up, calipers, hoses and a master cylinder. I'm going to bend and flare a front to rear brake line using the excellent brake and fuel line flaring tool I got from Eastwood. This thing makes those hand held flaring tools a total waste of time.
 
Nice work, and I like how you take pictures and document everything. I don’t think the 8 1/4 and looks too wide or infect any wider. It looks like it belongs there and I wish I would have kept more B Body 8 1/4 rear ends rather than sending them to the scrapyard
 
Nice work. Love the upgrades. The later M body front brake setup widens the track in the front a little, along with the B body rear axle. A suggestion is grab some 17" 5 spoke alloys mustang "bullit" rims. They may fit the offset better and look pretty good. The bonus is theres a lot of these cars in the junky by now. Gonna have to check out the flaring tool you mentioned. Do you have pix. I do mine by hand.
 
I will have to take some pictures of the flaring tool and post them up. This one is so good, it has instilled confidence in me that I never had before.
 
The 904 automatic I had set aside for this Valiant was up the hill so I went to bring it down. I noticed that it had water in the pan. It has been up there for several years, I can't recall exactly how long.
I have used transmissions with water in them and the reliability is inconsistent. Some worked fine, some slipped and shifted weird. I couldn't trust this one to be fine since I don't know what it came from or if it worked fine. I knew that it had a NON lock up converter.
I went back to Pick-N-Pull. The Fifth Avenue there has been a good donor. Last week I got the rear brakes. Today I got the transmission, The owner "Pepper" and Mike got the rotors, calipers and hoses.
This transmission was a bit greasy though...
Val 40.jpg
Val 41.jpg

It is a lockup converter model, not a bad thing since the Valiant will be a cruiser.

Val 42.jpg

That unmachined nub on the input shaft denotes a lockup model. Also, being an '87 year model, this is a A999 model, meaning that it has the lower first gear, 2.75 I believe? The car had 2.21 axle gears!
Val 43.jpg

Val 44.jpg

Val 45.jpg


A scraper, some gasoline, a scotch brite and a wire brush....THEN some Castrol Super Clean and the pressure washer.....
I can't put greasy parts in a car, man! I have to clean them up before installation even on a daily driver type car.
 
Brake line flaring tool:

View attachment 1715583852
The dies for the various sizes:
View attachment 1715583853
This unit is designed to me mounted in a vice. See square section at bottom:

View attachment 1715583854
View attachment 1715583855
View attachment 1715583856
The black piece at the left side gets a handle for leverage.
View attachment 1715583859
View attachment 1715583860

Link for Eastwood tools:

Eastwood Brake Line Flaring Tool Kit for Professionals
i have one like that, you can use them on the job too. i hold the square bit in a large set of stilson's. ok when you don't want to remove a pipe that snakes over a fuel tank or suchlike.
neil.
 
Weekend Update:

I had no intention of using a factory correct single pot master cylinder. The front disc/rear drum requires a proportioning valve anyway.
Val 50.jpg

That master cylinder is for a 73-76 Duster NON power front disc. NEW. Ready for sticker shock?
$108. Yeah.....
A Dr Diff aluminum one is less than that BUT is a 2 bolt pattern, requiring the adapter and an adjustable pushrod. Adding all that up plus shipping would have been $160 or more. This looks like a factory type part and can be replaced within a day if needed as compared to waiting for a part 1500 miles away.
Val 49.jpg

Proportioning valve is from a 73-76 A body disc/drum. I saved a few over the years. I had to make all the lines. The front to rear line was plugged. The front lines were too.
 
Last edited:
The last owner planned on making this car a 340 4 speed, 8 3/4" 3.55 gear Barracuda Formula S Convertible....a car that was never built.
The new owner wants an automatic so I removed the floor hump.
I pieced it in using 2 sections with the seam over the torsion bar crossmember.

Val 57.jpg
Val 59.jpg


Even though I welded the edges, I spread seam sealer on the inside and underside.

Val 62.jpg
Val 63.jpg

The car had the shorty brake pedal. I swapped that for the A/T long version.
Val brake 3.jpg
Val brake 2.jpg

Is there any market for this brake pedal ?
 
-
Back
Top