super stiff steering

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R3dplanet

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Hey gang,

I recently converted from power to manual steering with a new 24:1 ratio box. But it takes the strength of three men to turn the wheel. I brought it to a suspension shop and they reported that nothing was blocking or binding, and all the ball joints and tie rod ends are new and greased. Also took it to the exhaust guru to make sure the exhaust wasn't hitting anything when I sit in the car. All clear.

Any guidance on this? Thanks!
 
Hey gang,

I recently converted from power to manual steering with a new 24:1 ratio box. But it takes the strength of three men to turn the wheel. I brought it to a suspension shop and they reported that nothing was blocking or binding, and all the ball joints and tie rod ends are new and greased. Also took it to the exhaust guru to make sure the exhaust wasn't hitting anything when I sit in the car. All clear.

Any guidance on this? Thanks!

What are the alignment settings? Did you check that the steering box turned freely before you had it installed?

In general if you're not used to manual steering it is much harder to try and turn the wheels when the car isn't rolling. But with a 24:1 steering box it shouldn't be that bad really.
 
I just switched from 24:1 to 16:1, much better, but still can feel like you’re going to break off the steering wheel.

That should actually be harder to turn than with a 24:1 box the OP has.
 
What are the alignment settings? Did you check that the steering box turned freely before you had it installed?

In general if you're not used to manual steering it is much harder to try and turn the wheels when the car isn't rolling. But with a 24:1 steering box it shouldn't be that bad really.

The alignment hasn't changed and the suspension guy didn't think it needed any adjustment. I know how manual steering feels and this is pretty far from that. I'm wondering if this has to do with the Pittman arm or maybe the shipper sent me the wrong steering box. Off the ground it turns just fine.
 
The alignment may not have changed, but if you had a ton of positive caster with power, - without power steering, - that can make the wheel reaaaal heavy.
The more caster, the more you are lifting one side of the car, or the other.
For little o!d ladies, I set caster to +1*- 1.5*., making it easy to steer.
Reg drivers 2* - 2.5* reg feel.
For spirited carvers 3.5* + caster, = great directional stability, - the steering heavy, - strg wheel really tries to return to center.
So, the question of your alignment specs has a lot to do with how heavy your steering is .
 
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The alignment may not have changed, but if you had a ton of positive caster, - without power steering, - that can make the wheel reaaaal heavy.
The more caster, the more you are lifting one side of the car, or the other.
For little o!d ladies, I set caster to +1*- 1.5*., making it easy to steer.
Reg drivers 2* - 2.5* reg feel.
For spirited carvers 3.5* + caster, = steering heavy, strg wheel really tries to return to center.
So, the question of your alignment specs has a lot to do with how heavy your steering is .

I can drive back and ask him where it's all set. It would be good to have some numbers in any case.
 
Lift the front end off the ground. Put blocks under the LCAs and set the car on the blocks. (Tires off the ground, suspension in a natural position) and see how the steering turns.

Be sure you don't have the wrong idler or pitman arm. They both need to have the same geometry
 
Lift the front end off the ground. Put blocks under the LCAs and set the car on the blocks. (Tires off the ground, suspension in a natural position) and see how the steering turns.

Be sure you don't have the wrong idler or pitman arm. They both need to have the same geometry

Yeah, I'm about to go outside and do that right now. I'm not at all sure I have the right Pittman arm on there.
 
There is a quick ratio arm but you need to use the matching idler (IIRC)

That could cause I geometry issue.

I have the manual 24 OEM steering and to turn onto a cross street at 10 to 15 mph it is hand over hand...
Turning the wheels while standing still is pure muscle.
 
There is a quick ratio arm but you need to use the matching idler (IIRC)

That could cause I geometry issue.

I have the manual 24 OEM steering and to turn onto a cross street at 10 to 15 mph it is hand over hand...
Turning the wheels while standing still is pure muscle.


Good to know. I'm very desirous of finding the exact right Pittman and idler arms, but all I see in the aftermarket are the later units that work for either power or manual. I do have an idler with and FirmFeel bearing kit but I haven't got as far as that modification yet. The difficulty is getting photos and sources of the differences between the Pittman arms. I'm searching around for that information right now.
 
Yes, manual steering is not easy. To turn the wheels when not rolling try "pulling the steering wheel down" in the direction you want to turn. Sort of like pulling a rope, hand over hand on right side or left side of the steering wheel. Sounds silly to describe it, but its so much easier than trying to do the hand over hand, push over the top of the wheel, (save that technique for power steering).:steering:Its also why the stock steering wheel looks so large. Its gotta be really difficult with a smaller aftermarket wheel.
 
Are you sure you get the right box in 24:1?
Count the steering wheel turns from stop to stop. A 24 is really easy to turn. Disconnect the rod ends at the pitman arm, it should turn smooth and with no endplay in the middle, so you are sure your box and column is ok.
 
That should actually be harder to turn than with a 24:1 box the OP has.
The old steering box was old and stiff, plus steering wheel play. New Flaming River box is easier to drive—can make it around a corner with 30% less spinning of the wheel. Turns easier when parking (still a b!tch).
 
Make sure you have a box with bearings instead of bushings. The bushing style are a bastard to steer on the ground. I thought for sure my man BJB above would have mentioned this he knows everything about suspensions. He owns an Challenger he put over 70k on and is just the cats meow.

Bearing style I believe were found in 62-72 b-body cars. But I have seen them in many other models. Most boxes you buy from box stores years ago are bushing style. So if a box was replace it is now more then likely bushing. Why? There was more out there , Cheaper to rebuild and more profitable for the suppliers. I am sure BJB has better info then I do. He knows everything. Do not use any fishy information. Do your own research check the date code and PN#.

I believe that is where I would start looking. I have several bearing style I saved. Over many years of parting cars there weren't many manual steering cars except for Performance B-bodies with the bearing style. They are all small sector shaft boxes that I have. I kept them for race cars but now the best way to go is a rack.
 
I only found bushed manual boxes on early A-body 6 cylinder cars. Never found one in a '67-up car.
 
Are you sure you get the right box in 24:1?
Count the steering wheel turns from stop to stop. A 24 is really easy to turn. Disconnect the rod ends at the pitman arm, it should turn smooth and with no endplay in the middle, so you are sure your box and column is ok.

Yeah that's next on the agenda. I won't be able to work on it until the weekend but once I get the chance I'll find the lock-to-lock turns and find the ratio. I also want to disconnect the idler and see if it binds.
 
Or you could get a usable OEM gear and go that route.

I was driving my dart today. While moving forward at around 10 mph I can stear the car around a corner with one finger under a spoke. Not easy and my finger hurt a bit but do-able.


A lot of the time I can palm stear it except in a parking lot.

BUT most of the time it is hand over hand
 
Or you could get a usable OEM gear and go that route.

I was driving my dart today. While moving forward at around 10 mph I can stear the car around a corner with one finger under a spoke. Not easy and my finger hurt a bit but do-able.


A lot of the time I can palm stear it except in a parking lot.

BUT most of the time it is hand over hand
Sounds normal. I had a Tuff wheel with a manual box. It was a workout to park it.

Nothing was worse then this old truck. Any manual box felt like power steering after driving this. Having something hooked to it made it much easier to drive.

Maybe you could put a bunch of weight in the trunk. LOL

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