63-66 idler arm conversion to late model thru bolt ?

-
scotty1966

scotty1966

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
70
Reaction score
19
Location
Texas
I was wondering if there was a thru bolt idler arm conversion for the 63-66 A- Body ?
I would like to use a later model A-body bolt through idler arm but I am thinking it will be a No Go due to different geometry . Anyone done this ? Thanks
 
The stud at the K member end makes this impossible to use an original idler for this idea. A '68-72 has some similarities to the early ones. The mounting studs still face UP like the early cars. The shape is different but the length looks to be the same. If you were to add a bracket to go under the K member to allow a "double shear" type mount, it might work.
I keep going back to how these early A body cars were originally designed around light duty usage and how they were built well for the price point. Slant six engines, small brakes, 13" tires and manual steering. That stud mounted idler arm was and IS fine with an 80 HP 170 slant six and 13 x 4" wheels with bias ply tires!
 
I think I will look in my shed in the morning for a late model idler and compare them . If the dimensions are the same I will jig and mod the K member for it .. I figure I would ask . I'm too tired lazy to go out to my shed right now . LOL. Thanks
 
I have the clip cut from a later model K member to weld onto my 67 K (which is just like your early A. Idler attach didn't change until 68). Fabricating this 2 hole clip shouldn't be too difficult. Holding the center link level and square, where the OEM idler arm held it is the only concern.
 
I will jig the idler to properly locate it . I used to have a 67 Valiant and swapped the K for the later one . I miss that Car ,but I really like the 66 Valiants better.. Thanks
 
scotty1966 said:
I think I will look in my shed in the morning for a late model idler and compare them . If the dimensions are the same I will jig and mod the K member for it .. I figure I would ask . I'm too tired lazy to go out to my shed right now . LOL. Thanks
Click to expand...

Why? Plenty strong as is. Have put 500K miles on those cars, 64 66 and 67. Idler has never been a problem. 140 mph and all
 
Wide tires and aggressive cornering will result in more stress to the area. This will also result in steering deflection and reduced steering precision.
140 in a straight line on a smooth drag strip is great but it does not stress the steering like cornering does.
 
66fs said:
Why? Plenty strong as is. Have put 500K miles on those cars, 64 66 and 67. Idler has never been a problem. 140 mph and all
Click to expand...
If the one little ear was strong enough... there had to be some reason for changing it. There were daily drivers parallel parking and bumping curbs every day. If that little ear bends, toe setting changes.
 
Kern Dog said:
Wide tires and aggressive cornering will result in more stress to the area. This will also result in steering deflection and reduced steering precision.
140 in a straight line on a smooth drag strip is great but it does not stress the steering like cornering does.
Click to expand...

I am not a drag racer. My cars handle, always have. Alignment spot on for years and many miles. They probably changed because it was cheaper. We tend to over analyze everything, when most of what Ma Mopar did was way overkill. Never fix what is not broke.
 
Have it you way. Ignorance can be expensive though.
Double shear will flex far less than a single shear design. That is basic physics and common sense.
Back then, they didn't make a change for the heck of it. There was engineering involved.
 
66fs said:
Why? Plenty strong as is. Have put 500K miles on those cars, 64 66 and 67. Idler has never been a problem. 140 mph and all
Click to expand...
I had one fail before when I had my 67 and it was not pleasant . I prefer a captured idler for that reason ..
 
There was lots of fuss back in the day over the early design needing improvement. Scott Harvey engineer for Chrysler, also a rally car driving early Barracuda was the one to get idler changed to the later design. Company by the name of Quay Norris used to make a ball bearing improved idler arm (long gone). Firm Feel makes a retrofit kit, anyone try this kit? would be interested in results.
 
scotty1966 said:
I had one fail before when I had my 67 and it was not pleasant . I prefer a captured idler for that reason ..
Click to expand...
Both ends of the early idler are the same, and same as tie rod ends. All of them are subject to failure. What the factory did was may the k member attach more equal to the pitman arm attach to steering gear. Center link angle and toe setting has to stay more consistent.
 
Kern Dog said:
Have it you way. Ignorance can be expensive though.
Double shear will flex far less than a single shear design. That is basic physics and common sense.
Back then, they didn't make a change for the heck of it. There was engineering involved.
Click to expand...

Not ignorance, experience. Keep cobbling stuff up going for perfection, when the original design is fine for 98% of the use out there. Moog also made a Tapered roller bearing early A idler arm. I have one. They work great. The difference is between sleeve bushings and a roller bearing. No contest. Scott Harvey also won SCCA stock class in 1966 with his 66 Barracuda Team Starfish.
 
Previous owner on my car had the late model idler arm on my early k frame. They simply had used a bolt where the tapered pin on the proper style would fit into the "biscuit" on the frame .

While it drove fine like this it did put the passenger side wheel approximately 3/4 of an inch closer to the front edge of the fender than the driver side wheel. The alignment was totally jacked up. I guess it could have been fixed by running an adjustable strut rod on that side , but frankly it was redneck sloppy.

Replaced with the proper idler arm from PST and the car came down to a within .1 degree alignment on the hunter rack.
 
66jim said:
Firm Feel makes a retrofit kit, anyone try this kit? would be interested in results.
Click to expand...

This is interesting. Firm Feel's web page shows this applicable to A and B bodies. I'd be interested in hearing if anyone has tried this kit for either platforms.
 
66fs said:
Why? Plenty strong as is. Have put 500K miles on those cars, 64 66 and 67. Idler has never been a problem. 140 mph and all
Click to expand...

That's what I was wondering. Is there some kinda strength advantage? I just think they are two different designs.....but I'm no engineer either.
 
66jim said:
Less flex
Click to expand...

Well, I can certainly see the difference in design, but I've never actually witnessed any flex there. Have you? I would think you'd need a go pro camera mounted aimed at a dial indicator to see it and I've never done that. So I have no definitive proof......but the theory seems sound. I know millions of early A bodies were built and to date, I've never seen a broken bracket. I've seen a couple of idler arms that the pivot came out of just from regular wear, but none from any kind of fatigue failure.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Well, I can certainly see the difference in design, but I've never actually witnessed any flex there. Have you? I would think you'd need a go pro camera mounted aimed at a dial indicator to see it and I've never done that. So I have no definitive proof......but the theory seems sound. I know millions of early A bodies were built and to date, I've never seen a broken bracket. I've seen a couple of idler arms that the pivot came out of just from regular wear, but none from any kind of fatigue failure.
Click to expand...
Have not witnessed flex myself, however this was the issue when Chrysler engineer Scott Harvey was involved in rallys driving a 66 barracuda. Off issue I have seen considerable K frame flex around the steering box. You can easily see this while having someone turn the wheel lock to lock and just watch the box and hydraulic lines move, it looked to me like more than 1/8 inch. I attach some 3/8 treaded rod to the FRONT nose of the steering box and weld a bracket to the adjacent frame rail, like a strut this all but eliminates box to K flex. It make a very noticeable improvement to the steering feel/response. And yes steering box was bolted tight and no K frame cracks.
 
I broke a steering mount almost off a k member in my 65. Not sure what happened but at about 10 mph the entire front end started shimmying like a bad grocery cart wheel, vilolent back and forth about 10 times a second! I 'but **** myself. I pulled over and slowly accelerated again and 10 mph bam! Limped it home under 10 and when I got it home and jacked up. I noticed the steering mount cracked through in 2 of the 3 welds. Found another 65 K 400 miles away, road tripped it and replaced it. Didn't think to save the bad one to weld it up and gusset all the points.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top