Mid year 273 in 64 Darts?

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toolmanmike

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Nope. The 273 was not available in 63 but yes in 64. No mid year option. Having a spirited discussion with a guy on Facebook. :BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead: The guy is obviously confused that the model year started August 1st.
 
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Dunno, have a look....Nov 20?
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Nope. The 273 was not available in 63 but yes in 64. No mid year option. Having a spirited discussion with a guy on Facebook. :BangHead::BangHead::BangHead::BangHead: The guy is obviously confused that the model year started August 1st.

Why are you on Facebook? I had an 273 in my 64 Barracuda 4 speed, what dates are you looking for. I still have the short block.
 
What's the debate? They made them...how's that!
The guy I had a discussion with is obviously confused about "mid year option". Probably because the new production year starts August 1st.
 
Just like the Mustang in 64. They both started mid year. I had clowns tell me I could not have a 64 Barracuda or my brother could not have a 64 Mustang convertible. Just ignorant or bad information. Not worth your time.
 
Just like the Mustang in 64. They both started mid year. I had clowns tell me I could not have a 64 Barracuda or my brother could not have a 64 Mustang convertible. Just ignorant or bad information. Not worth your time.
The Mustangs and Barrcuda's were mid year. The discussion I was having with the guy was the release of the 273. It was not available in 1963 but was put into production in 64 and not 64 1/2. Yes, blocks were cast in 63 because the 64 production year started in August of 63. He swore that 273's were a mid year production change in 64. Nope.
 
The Mustangs and Barrcuda's were mid year. The discussion I was having with the guy was the release of the 273. It was not available in 1963 but was put into production in 64 and not 64 1/2. Yes, blocks were cast in 63 because the 64 production year started in August of 63. He swore that 273's were a mid year production change in 64. Nope.

But the 273 was available in Darts, which was not a mid 64 intro. Change from what? (Not asking you) The 273 was made to fit a V8 in A Bodies.
 
But the 273 was available in Darts, which was not a mid 64 intro. Change from what? (Not asking you) The 273 was made to fit a V8 in A Bodies.
Exactly. The guy had a 64 Dart with the "optional mid year 273". I laughed. He was confused and uninformed.
 
The Mustangs and Barrcuda's were mid year. The discussion I was having with the guy was the release of the 273. It was not available in 1963 but was put into production in 64 and not 64 1/2. Yes, blocks were cast in 63 because the 64 production year started in August of 63. He swore that 273's were a mid year production change in 64. Nope.


And being a new engine and block, they would have not waited until the last minute to make batch runs of block castings to make sure that the tooling was good and the parts were in spec...

They would need some blocks (very many) to run through the block machining line to verify/validate the machines are running properly and the parts are to spec... They walk the parts through each station, one at a time and measure all of the parts to make sure that they are in spec and to make adjustments to the machines as they get to know them....

Not to mention that they would need castings to fill the block machine line... With a new line, it starts out empty, you have to run some blocks through all of the stations to fill the line...

After the block machine line is verified, then they need to run some engines down the engine assembly line to test the tooling in each station on the assembly line...

Now you have to fill the engine assembly line with engines.... (requiring more blocks...)

Then the car assembly plants are going to need some engines to test their tooling on the engine dress line, and the engine drop station...


Once the new blocks are machined, then built into engines, it's a guarantee that the first dozen will be sent to Design Engineering to be tested ASAP... They have to test the parts before they are released to the public to make sure that there are no defects/problems.... They need to put run time on them to verify that they are good... They will have a batch that will go on engine dynos at the design center, then put some in cars and have them driving around the proving grounds to get miles on them ASAP and shake out any problems....


All of this has to happen before they are able to ship any of them out to customers....

So it wouldn't be out of the question to see some early 63 cast date blocks....
 
Just like the Mustang in 64. They both started mid year. I had clowns tell me I could not have a 64 Barracuda or my brother could not have a 64 Mustang convertible. Just ignorant or bad information. Not worth your time.
For several years now I’ve heard many people call some ‘65 mustangs 64 1/2. I never heard such a thing in the sixties or seventies. I had a ‘65 mustang that was built April ‘64. The car had a generator, not an alternator. It also had a road draft tube instead of the pcv system. Titled as a ‘65. It kinda bugs me hearing ‘64 1/2.
Jerry
 
So it wouldn't be out of the question to see some early 63 cast date blocks....
You were in production Karl, in a average year, how few ahead of release date did the casting and machining start? I can imagine design and engineering started at least a year prior.
 
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According to Issue 59 of the Slant 6 News:

At their 1964 introduction the Slant 6 engine was still the only available powerplant for Valiants [and Darts, see Issue 33]. . . . The new 273 V-8 was announced in December, 1963 and went into production that same month. The first V-8s hit the dealers' showrooms after January 1, 1964. . . .

Don't know if that would be considered mid-year or not, but it wasn't available at the beginning of the 64 model year.
 
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I might have to eat crow. Announcement date and production dates are 2 different things. I will have to poke around on the Hamtramck site and see if I can find more info.
 
For several years now I’ve heard many people call some ‘65 mustangs 64 1/2. I never heard such a thing in the sixties or seventies. I had a ‘65 mustang that was built April ‘64. The car had a generator, not an alternator. It also had a road draft tube instead of the pcv system. Titled as a ‘65. It kinda bugs me hearing ‘64 1/2.
Jerry

Mustangs were officially called, and titled as, 1965 models by Ford at their introduction in April 1964. However, that fall Mustangs were updated - among other things, the 260 V8 option disappeared. Can't remember some of the other changes, but Mustang folks started calling the early 65 models 64 1/2 to differentiate them. Kind of a throwback to Ford's 63 1/2 models which were a real thing and officially called such by Ford. But there was never an official 64 1/2 Mustang model.

Barracudas introduced at the same time were officially called, and titled as, 1964 models. First 65 Barracuda models were introduced that fall.
 
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Some call the 64 Barracudas 64 1/2 models, I guess because they were introduced fairly late in the 64 model year, but Chrysler never called them that.

Same goes for another pet peeve of mine: calling 67-9 Barracuda coupes "notchbacks." That's what Ford called their Mustang coupes. Chrysler never called their coupes "notchbacks."

But I digress. . . .
 
You were in production in a average year, how few ahead of release date did the casting and machining start? I can imagine design and engineering started at least a year prior.


Back then, I believe it was about a 3 1/2 - 4 year cycle time from start of design to production... Now days, they try to cut it down to 2 1/2, which I think is not enough time if there are any hiccups...

They can't start the castings until they get a design freeze and they have a 'target' to shoot for... They keep tweaking designs for various reasons in the design stage... Once you get everything in the design, then you can start making the tooling to produce it...


Since it would have been a new program, they wouldn't have to worry about taking the production tooling down to run the trials... They can start the tooling as soon as the design is determined...

There are two stages of tooling: Prototype (soft) tooling, and Production (hard) tooling...

Prototype tooling is quicker and cheaper to make in the early stages of the program so you can get parts to test with, but the tooling is not as hard as the production tooling and wears out faster... Soft tooling has a limited capability of how many parts you can make with them before the tools wear out...

Then the production tooling is more expensive and permanent (harder) so it last longer... However it takes longer to make....

As an engineer, you do your Design Validation testing with prototype soft tooled parts to prove out that the design works and will last through it's life cycle testing...

Once the design is done and your part has passed all of the design validation testing, then you kick off the production tool... You must run test parts off of the production tool before you send any out to customers... This is your production validation testing to make sure that everything is ok with the production tooling and the parts it makes...


Then you have the machine stage... Each machine for each station on the block machine line and the engine assembly line are built by outside machine building shops... They don't have one company do the whole line as that can get overwhelming... They split it up between a few different machine builders because when the machines are launched, they will have people at the plants to support the launch...

Each machine for every station for the machine line and assembly line must be test run before it ships into the engine plant... So they will need a batch of parts to run on those machines to make sure they work properly... If parts from the production hard tool are not available at this time, they will use soft tooled prototype parts for the run off at the supplier's place...

After the machine is 'run off' on the supplier's building, then it is shipped and set up at the engine plant and then it has to be run/tested after it's installed... This is where it is important to have production tooled parts to tun the machines in... There will be some slight differences between the soft tooled prototype part and the hard tooled production part, so you want to tune and adjust the machines to the production tooled parts...

It's hard to put a particular time frame on it as it depends on each program and how far ahead or behind schedule it is... They try to get the longer lead time parts kicked off as early as possible to try to keep them from delaying the launch...
 
You were in production Karl, in a average year, how few ahead of release date did the casting and machining start? I can imagine design and engineering started at least a year prior.


For normal production with minor changes from year to year, it's usually get the tool modified for the new part and then test run it on a weekend when the lines weren't making production...

Install the new tool in the station and run a batch of parts through and see how they ran... We would measure and gauge the parts until we established that the machine was capable and we were comfortable that they were all good coming off the machine...

Then when we were done with our batch run, we would put the regular production tool back in the station and run some parts to verify that it was set up properly and making good parts... You never walk away from the machine until it's ready to go back on line production again...
 
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