Cleaning up body lines

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gerahead

Glutton for Punishment
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I posted this same information on the Member's Restorations forum, but didn't get any responses, so I figured I'd post it here as well where there is a more focused interest.
Question for you guys who have done this . . . . I am having a hell of a time chasing the body lines down the quarters to get them nice and straight. These were new skins, so I am not trying to fix underlying damage as much as I am trying to make it better. I am looking for suggestions on what has worked for you. Part of the problem is that the lines are so faint in some areas that they are hard to even follow. The most troublesome is the line down the middle of the quarter (all 6-1/2 feet of it!). I need to sharpen this up so that I can make sure the contour going up from there to the top edge nice and smooth since that is where the welded seam is located. Last night I ran a tape line along the top side of the edge from the door jamb to the rear edge of the panel and then ran another tape line parallel to that, about 4" down from there. In between the two lines I applied some filler up to the tape edge on the body line using the lower tape line as an intended guide for the area I wanted to use to blend to the edge.
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Will be pulling the tape and sanding that hard edge to smooth it and then repeating the process, coming at the hard edge from the other side with filler to recreate the edge. If you can follow my attempt to describe what I am doing, am I on the right track? Do I need to do something differently? Recommendations from lessons learned the hard way? I have never tried something like this before and to be honest it is kicking my ***! Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide! L8r

Jim
 
Darts are a ***** because they have so many lines ! I feel your pain !
Honestly I am done with trying to over restore cars and make them look like 2020 new cars... they werent all that straight from the factory . Panels didnt always line up , there were little waves sometimes , metallics fell out of suspension . Etc....
A4DAD66C-D290-4916-9F61-FA21A6505C0E.jpeg
A4DAD66C-D290-4916-9F61-FA21A6505C0E.jpeg
 
Oops....

I had a guy tell me to use a 3ft+board on my Dart after looking at the lines.
 
I posted this same information on the Member's Restorations forum, but didn't get any responses, so I figured I'd post it here as well where there is a more focused interest.
Question for you guys who have done this . . . . I am having a hell of a time chasing the body lines down the quarters to get them nice and straight. These were new skins, so I am not trying to fix underlying damage as much as I am trying to make it better. I am looking for suggestions on what has worked for you. Part of the problem is that the lines are so faint in some areas that they are hard to even follow. The most troublesome is the line down the middle of the quarter (all 6-1/2 feet of it!). I need to sharpen this up so that I can make sure the contour going up from there to the top edge nice and smooth since that is where the welded seam is located. Last night I ran a tape line along the top side of the edge from the door jamb to the rear edge of the panel and then ran another tape line parallel to that, about 4" down from there. In between the two lines I applied some filler up to the tape edge on the body line using the lower tape line as an intended guide for the area I wanted to use to blend to the edge.
View attachment 1715590875 Will be pulling the tape and sanding that hard edge to smooth it and then repeating the process, coming at the hard edge from the other side with filler to recreate the edge. If you can follow my attempt to describe what I am doing, am I on the right track? Do I need to do something differently? Recommendations from lessons learned the hard way? I have never tried something like this before and to be honest it is kicking my ***! Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide! L8r

Jim
I feel your pain!!! But, just like they replied above, the lines are plentiful and long. Then, just when you think you have a handle on it and it's coming along, you come to that long rounded line at the wheel well. :BangHead:
I haven't tried to use tape as a guide; just glaze and sand, glaze and sand....Now I know why body work is so expensive. I would starve to death if I had to do this for a living. This is my first experience with body work also; I really think patience and elbow grease are the only "secrets" I can share.
20200629_150927.jpg
 
Just paint it the way it is and never let the car sit still ... its hard to critic body lines thru a cloud of tire smoke or at 90 mph ...lol
 
Agree 100%. If I had known then what I know now.....
I would have fixed what was really wrong with it and would have been driving it all these 20+ years. Rotisserie resto's are not necessary for the weekend fun/sport driver. Live and learn!
 
I posted this same information on the Member's Restorations forum, but didn't get any responses, so I figured I'd post it here as well where there is a more focused interest.
Question for you guys who have done this . . . . I am having a hell of a time chasing the body lines down the quarters to get them nice and straight. These were new skins, so I am not trying to fix underlying damage as much as I am trying to make it better. I am looking for suggestions on what has worked for you. Part of the problem is that the lines are so faint in some areas that they are hard to even follow. The most troublesome is the line down the middle of the quarter (all 6-1/2 feet of it!). I need to sharpen this up so that I can make sure the contour going up from there to the top edge nice and smooth since that is where the welded seam is located. Last night I ran a tape line along the top side of the edge from the door jamb to the rear edge of the panel and then ran another tape line parallel to that, about 4" down from there. In between the two lines I applied some filler up to the tape edge on the body line using the lower tape line as an intended guide for the area I wanted to use to blend to the edge.
View attachment 1715590875 Will be pulling the tape and sanding that hard edge to smooth it and then repeating the process, coming at the hard edge from the other side with filler to recreate the edge. If you can follow my attempt to describe what I am doing, am I on the right track? Do I need to do something differently? Recommendations from lessons learned the hard way? I have never tried something like this before and to be honest it is kicking my ***! Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide! L8r

Jim

Have pretty much done it with the tape like you have above, one side of the line at a time.

My trick is I generally use a 6" wide steel blade with the handle cut off for applying the mud.

Then I use a 5' long x 2" wide metal ruler with the green tape on it to keep the bondo from sticking to the ruler. Then I use the long ruler to screat it straight from the tape line up. The trick is to apply the bondo as straight as you can possibly get it, makes the sanding process a lot easier. Then sand that back straight with the idiot stick, long and skinny 36 grit sand paper.

Then do the same for below the tape line.
May take a couple of times for each side of the ridge as you are alternating top to bottom, building up the low spots on the ridge to keep it straight.

Then block sand it again with the tape top then bottom, 80 grit then down to 180 grit.

Then can do the same block sanding with your primer surfacer, the longer sanding blocks work good for this as you are bridging from the bondo work to the bare steel. Being careful not to undercut the bondo to steel area, as I call this the lake effect, the undercut area looks like a lake when you spray the wet primer surfacer on it.

Blocking out the primer surfacer is definatly part of the straightening process. They have the finer grades of finishing bondo that can be used over the primer surfacer for any imperfections or low spots that show up as you are bringing things up to straight grade.

Then block sand out your final coats of primer surfacer as you are getting it ready for applying the paint.

Here is one I have done with the above process, even that fancy curve just over the wheel opening.

Screenshot_20200712-020702_Gallery.jpg


Straightening process to the quarter panel below:

Shsun 67 quarter.jpeg
 
I feel your pain!!! But, just like they replied above, the lines are plentiful and long. Then, just when you think you have a handle on it and it's coming along, you come to that long rounded line at the wheel well. :BangHead:
I haven't tried to use tape as a guide; just glaze and sand, glaze and sand....Now I know why body work is so expensive. I would starve to death if I had to do this for a living. This is my first experience with body work also; I really think patience and elbow grease are the only "secrets" I can share.
View attachment 1715591017


I too would starve if I was hoping to get paid for what I have done!
 
Have pretty much done it with the tape like you have above, one side of the line at a time.

My trick is I generally use a 6" wide steel blade with the handle cut off for applying the mud.

Then I use a 5' long x 2" wide metal ruler with the green tape on it to keep the bondo from sticking to the ruler. Then I use the long ruler to screat it straight from the tape line up. The trick is to apply the bondo as straight as you can possibly get it, makes the sanding process a lot easier. Then sand that back straight with the idiot stick, long and skinny 36 grit sand paper.

Then do the same for below the tape line.
May take a couple of times for each side of the ridge as you are alternating top to bottom, building up the low spots on the ridge to keep it straight.

Then block sand it again with the tape top then bottom, 80 grit then down to 180 grit.

Then can do the same block sanding with your primer surfacer, the longer sanding blocks work good for this as you are bridging from the bondo work to the bare steel. Being careful not to undercut the bondo to steel area, as I call this the lake effect, the undercut area looks like a lake when you spray the wet primer surfacer on it.

Blocking out the primer surfacer is definatly part of the straightening process. They have the finer grades of finishing bondo that can be used over the primer surfacer for any imperfections or low spots that show up as you are bringing things up to straight grade.

Then block sand out your final coats of primer surfacer as you are getting it ready for applying the paint.

Here is one I have done with the above process, even that fancy curve just over the wheel opening.

View attachment 1715591113

Straightening process to the quarter panel below:

View attachment 1715591114
 
Thanks for the tip on the tape-wrapped ruler to use as a screed board. I hadn't thought of that and would likely help cut down on the sanding needed. Your Dart looks good!
 
I have been using a similar length durablock for most of what I have gotten done. Thanks for the link to this.
Yes but the dura block has some flex to it, this one is completely rigid.
 
Darts are a ***** because they have so many lines!

Almost exactly what my body/paint guy said when he was about 6 months into my Dart.
A trick he found that he said helped him a lot was cutting the retractable metal tape out of a 25' measuring tape and then taping in to the side of my Dart to use to establish laser-straight continuous body lines. Do this after setting all the gaps.
One of the previous clowns that attempted to do body work on my Dart attempted to work the body lines with the front fenders and doors off of the car. Needless to say the lines were all over the place and nothing matched up.
 
Not really picking up what you are laying down but it seems like you are filling one side at a time. That would not work for me. I would put filler over both sides of the line in one pass and try to duplicate the line with the spreader with my last passes running length wise. It takes some practice. I rarely use a spreader bigger than 4 inches. I give the plastic spreader a little curve so I am using one end to dial in the line after the initial application and the other end of the spreader is hard on the panel yet "floating" the line. Gotta think flat all of the time. No up and down (high and low) with the spreader.
Starting on the top (easier to keep flat) file one side of the line letting it run wild but keeping it flat taking in consideration of any length wise curvature of the panel. Always use sharp paper. 36 is pretty aggressive but doable then work it with 80 and then 150 for primer.
Blow it off good. NOW, on the freshly filed side of the line, lay down your tape where you want your line to be. Make sure the tape is stuck well. Take some fast drying rattle can paint and dust it over the tape. This is called a "guide coat". They actually make a spray can called guide coat or there is a powder form that is applies with a foam pad but lacquer rattle can works fine.
Pull the tape and file the other side up to the tape line you created. Hopefully this helps. Sure is nice to get this done in one shot. If you don't get it in one shot, I recommend re-coating the whole thing cause you will never get it right patching it in here and there because of the different hardness of the mixed fillers. You can get away with a small depression if you get on it before it gets real hard.
That's the ticket to most of this. Get on it with #36 when its "cheesy" to start with. It will plug your paper and have a tendency to peel off the panel but be gentle and smack your paper with a paint stick or something to keep it clean. Get it roughed out when its soft then let it dry better and start in with the #80.
 
Yes but the dura block has some flex to it, this one is completely rigid.

They used to call those rigid boards "Idiot Sticks", cause they say any idiot can get them striaght with them. Work well though.

There is the air powered long and skinny sander that works well for larger big flat areas also.
 
So, I'm doing a Dart for a guy now. The quarters were put on before it showed up here. The paasenger side was a mess and took a lot to get the body line to look right. What i wound up doing was getting the quarter all straight then, ran 2 tape lines, the first one right above where the body line would flatten out and, the 2nd right below where it should flatten out so, basically between the lines was only about 1/2". I filled the area between the tape lines to make a more pronounced line. I sanded this down until the hieghth of the line seemed right. I then ran a tape line to what would be the very center of the line and blended the bottom in then, retaped the center of the line and blended the top in. Turned out pretty decent but, took hours to get it there. If you can see it in the picture...

20200824_200840.jpg
 
They used to call those rigid boards "Idiot Sticks", cause they say any idiot can get them striaght with them. Work well though.

There is the air powered long and skinny sander that works well for larger big flat areas also.
I have an air powered one also.
 
I have an air powered one also.
Air ones can really screw things up fast. When i skim something i use a DA sander to knock it dont until its close then, block by hand from there. Air tools do not make cars straight.
 
Air ones can really screw things up fast. When i skim something i use a DA sander to knock it dont until its close then, block by hand from there. Air tools do not make cars straight.
So true, that is why I recommended the hand sander to the OP.
 
A lot of highly skilled approaches to getting those body lines straight. Each person has a unique way to get them done.

Kind of an Art Form . . .
 
To make things worse it appear that some of the panels in between the top line and second line are flat while others have a slight curve to them . Is this my imagination ? I am referring to the quarter vs door vs fender....
 
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