LD340 Can’t Get The Carb Base To Seal

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gregcon said:
I'm developing an unhealthy fascination with this thread....it has all the elements of a ****** party in a burned out apartment building. The simple problem followed by layers upon layers of misguided advice and misinformation....it's like peeling an onion of automotive misery!

It's really this simple when it comes to carb bases - if the two surfaces are relatively flat and continuous and the carb is properly tightened - it'll seal. The type of fasteners, the PCV vacuum tap location, the exact type of gasket, and all the rest have nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...

Yup.
 
bradfields said:
After putting these parts on, I tried to dial the timing in and discovered that I’m getting no advance from the distributor, I have it set at 10 degrees BTC at idle and it stays at 10 degrees when increasing the engine speed. I’m using and old MOPAR Prestolite tach drive distributor that came with the engine and am using a stock coil and wires and one of those blue hi rev ignition modules.
I’m going to replace the distributor with something newer / better, what’s a decent distributor to get for a car that’s just going to be street driven?
Click to expand...
It looks like the cover for the tach output is contacting the intake manifold. So spin it around so its facing back and reset the spark plug wires.
If that set up is the same as the later P-part tach drive distributors, then timing has to be set at mid rpm - something around 3000. Then the way those were set up back then, most racers just accepted the idle timing for whatever it was. You can search for posts about the MP tach drive distributors where I've posted the advance curve.
Bottom line is IF the primary advance is real quick like the later ones, and your checking at a high idle speed - like 1200 rpm, most of the advance is practically done.
Knowing the rpm of the timing measurements is critical to figuring out what the advance is doing.

For street use, a distributor with vac advance and the proper mechanical advance will provide better milage and be easier to tune.
Whether you want points or a electronic version, message @halifaxhops and maybe you can work out a deal.
Advantage in working with him is that he can set up an advance curve.
 
7044152c-af07-4253-9693-253f0d0af560-jpeg.jpg


Not picking on you but; I'm not a fan of driverside PCV hoses, for what should be an obvious reason; and I always run dual throttle return springs, one inside the other. Also, secondary wires should be separated by more than 1/4 inch,(more is better) to prevent induction firing in adjacent cylinders. and your throttle cable bracket should really be higher up off the manifold, pulling in a straight line. The way yours is, it will eventually wear out the throttle shaft bushing.
Take a good look at your zip-tie fuel-line clamps; I have not seen any that clamp 360*. There is always a section by the zipper that bulges out or is not properly clamped. I'm not a fan of those in this application. But gear-clamps are just as bad, maybe worse; you always need two of them rotated 180*; safety first.

EDIT
It's been pointed out that the clamps on the fuel line are the factory spring type. I don't know how my eyes messed that up, even on triple checking. Sorry I screwed up on that but like I said; not picking on you.
 
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I agree on the plug wires. The fuel line clamps? They're fine for a 6PSI system. The clamp is not intended to clamp 360 degrees, nor does it need to. The clamp acts as a restriction to prevent the hose from sliding over the barb (bulge). Two gear type clamps? Hardly. There's not even space for that, much less the ugliness of it and needlessness of it. I try to keep part that are only added clutter and weight on the workbench and off the car.

Wear out early the carb throttle shaft bushing? In theory, yes. In practice? He and I and you will be dead before that actually happens. The throttle bracket is pretty much in the stock position and mimics the stock angle. It's not extreme. I like less that his PCV hose is touching (or very close to touching) the spring.
 
OP;
if you're ok with taking a chance of spewing one of the most volatile liquids on the face of the Earth, directly at the spark generator, at least do your due diligence. The factory made the best little metal clamps for that location, but they must be correctly sized for the fuel line being used.
As for me;
In a million years I would not engineer an in-line filter between the pump and the carb. And I sure wouldn't install zip-ties on it. But it looks real pretty.
 
The factory used an inline filter between carb and pump.

I'm not seeing Zip Ties ...what am I missing? I see metal clamps.
 
AJ/FormS said:
OP;
if you're ok with taking a chance of spewing one of the most volatile liquids on the face of the Earth, directly at the spark generator, at least do your due diligence. The factory made the best little metal clamps for that location, but they must be correctly sized for the fuel line being used.
As for me;
In a million years I would not engineer an in-line filter between the pump and the carb. And I sure wouldn't install zip-ties on it. But it looks real pretty.
Click to expand...


The fuel filter does not have zip ties, it has factory fuel line clamps. The pcv valve and hose are in the factory position.
Even the throttle return spring bracket is factory. I'll give it to you on the plug wires, but talk about misinformation. Wow
 
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bradfields said:
View attachment 1715593544 View attachment 1715593545 Ok, I’ve installed a new thick carb gasket and studs, re-routed the PCV plumbing to the carb base and replaced the plastic fuel filter with a metal one, I can say that it runs MUCH better, it still isn’t quite right yet, but it is better.
After putting these parts on, I tried to dial the timing in and discovered that I’m getting no advance from the distributor, I have it set at 10 degrees BTC at idle and it stays at 10 degrees when increasing the engine speed. I’m using and old MOPAR Prestolite tach drive distributor that came with the engine and am using a stock coil and wires and one of those blue hi rev ignition modules.
I’m going to replace the distributor with something newer / better, what’s a decent distributor to get for a car that’s just going to be street driven?
Click to expand...
Your mechanical advance is stuck, that tach drive distributor is good trade bait. Check out Halifax shops he is a member here he always has rebuilt distributors for sale on the forum
 
gregcon said:
I'm not seeing Zip Ties ...what am I missing? I see metal clamps.
Click to expand...
ohchit; I screwed up on the clamps, I edited the post.

As to the rest;
Just because the factory did this or that doesn't guarantee it was the right,or the best, or the whatever, way to do a thing. A lot of the time, the things the factory did, were in the interest of expediency, and/or low-cost.
I just said I wasn't a fan of certain things I saw.
I did not say it was right or wrong. Nor did I say OP should change anything. And I made a helpful suggestion.

I get that I messed up on the clamps, but why jump on me for stating an opinion? Which clearly was justified when I mentioned the spring clamps..
Some of you guys still believe in a spherical Earth; That's your opinion, and I don't ream you a new one for it.
And I really resent the use of the word "dude", but it's your opinion to bandy about words, and I'll not club you over the head about it, you probably have lots words in your vocabulary, that you use, not knowing the misinformation they might carry.
If you guys want to hate something; hate abortion. Hate effeminism. Hate fornication.Hate the systematic dismantlement of your society. There are lots of much bigger things to hate, than a guy just trying to help..
 
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bradfields said:
View attachment 1715593544 View attachment 1715593545 Ok, I’ve installed a new thick carb gasket and studs, re-routed the PCV plumbing to the carb base and replaced the plastic fuel filter with a metal one, I can say that it runs MUCH better, it still isn’t quite right yet, but it is better.
After putting these parts on, I tried to dial the timing in and discovered that I’m getting no advance from the distributor, I have it set at 10 degrees BTC at idle and it stays at 10 degrees when increasing the engine speed. I’m using and old MOPAR Prestolite tach drive distributor that came with the engine and am using a stock coil and wires and one of those blue hi rev ignition modules.
I’m going to replace the distributor with something newer / better, what’s a decent distributor to get for a car that’s just going to be street driven?
Click to expand...


Send your distributor to @halifaxhops and he can rebuild it for you and curve the timing any way you want... He has a Sun distributor machine and has done a few for me and they run great...

Here's a 340 Dart with one of his distributors:

 
I didn't jump on you; I was just asking what I was missing because I wasn't seeing any zip ties.

As for the filter placement, it might help if you provided 'why' you don't like it. Especially with a mechanical diaphragm pump (like a stock pump) I can't think of any reason it's in the wrong place.

For the record, I am all for fornication.
 
AJ/FormS said:
ohchit; I screwed up on the clamps, I edited the post.

As to the rest;
Just because the factory did this or that doesn't guarantee it was the right,or the best, or the whatever, way to do a thing. A lot of the time, the things the factory did, were in the interest of expediency, and/or low-cost.
I just said I wasn't a fan of certain things I saw.
I did not say it was right or wrong. Nor did I say OP should change anything. And I made a helpful suggestion.

I get that I messed up on the clamps, but why jump on me for stating an opinion? Which clearly was justified when I mentioned the spring clamps..
Some of you guys still believe in a spherical Earth; That's your opinion, and I don't ream you a new one for it.
And I really resent the use of the word "dude", but it's your opinion to bandy about words, and I'll not club you over the head about it, you probably have lots words in your vocabulary, that you use, not knowing the misinformation they might carry.
If you guys want to hate something; hate abortion. Hate effeminism. Hate fornication.Hate the systematic dismantlement of your society. There are lots of much bigger things to hate, than a guy just trying to help..
Click to expand...

I don't see where or the word Hate was used in this discussion towards you ? Nobody hates you or your opinion. I just disagree with your opinion. Everything that you disliked about his engine, was in fact pretty much the way the factory did it. Chrysler engineers designed it this way. Can some things be changed or made better then the factory did it ? Possibly. That's called hot rodding. But I don't see anything (other the the plug wires) on his set up that is raising red flags to me.
But to give misinformation to a member, tell him everything he has is wrong (when it is not) is very misleading. This could lead to the unnecessary spending by a member, when he could be focussing on something that does need fixing (spark plug wires) ;) You are a very knowledgeable member here, and I'm actually surprised by your comments on his engine. Having said that, you are entitled to your opinion. My misuse of a word isn't justified, and has been changed in my previous post. Cheers
 
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AJ/FormS said:
ohchit; I screwed up on the clamps, I edited the post.

As to the rest;
Just because the factory did this or that doesn't guarantee it was the right,or the best, or the whatever, way to do a thing. A lot of the time, the things the factory did, were in the interest of expediency, and/or low-cost.
I just said I wasn't a fan of certain things I saw.
I did not say it was right or wrong. Nor did I say OP should change anything. And I made a helpful suggestion.

I get that I messed up on the clamps, but why jump on me for stating an opinion? Which clearly was justified when I mentioned the spring clamps..
Some of you guys still believe in a spherical Earth; That's your opinion, and I don't ream you a new one for it.
And I really resent the use of the word "dude", but it's your opinion to bandy about words, and I'll not club you over the head about it, you probably have lots words in your vocabulary, that you use, not knowing the misinformation they might carry.
If you guys want to hate something; hate abortion. Hate effeminism. Hate fornication.Hate the systematic dismantlement of your society. There are lots of much bigger things to hate, than a guy just trying to help..
Click to expand...

No offense taken by me, I actually appreciate the information, I am planning on properly separating the plug wires, I just have them tied up temporarily to keep them up off of the left exhaust manifold while I try and sort out some of the other stuff going on.
This car is doing its best to kick my ***, it’s like 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
I try and keep in mind that the car has sat for over 20 years (10 in my possession) as a stripped out pile of parts with no engine or transmission and I really have zero back history on it, so who knows what the hell’s been done to it in the past.
I’m also fighting a power steering problem that I’m going to start another post about, we’ll see how that goes. lol
 
Mattax said:
It looks like the cover for the tach output is contacting the intake manifold. So spin it around so its facing back and reset the spark plug wires.
If that set up is the same as the later P-part tach drive distributors, then timing has to be set at mid rpm - something around 3000. Then the way those were set up back then, most racers just accepted the idle timing for whatever it was. You can search for posts about the MP tach drive distributors where I've posted the advance curve.
Bottom line is IF the primary advance is real quick like the later ones, and your checking at a high idle speed - like 1200 rpm, most of the advance is practically done.
Knowing the rpm of the timing measurements is critical to figuring out what the advance is doing.

For street use, a distributor with vac advance and the proper mechanical advance will provide better milage and be easier to tune.
Whether you want points or a electronic version, message @halifaxhops and maybe you can work out a deal.
Advantage in working with him is that he can set up an advance curve.
Click to expand...

It actually has about an inch and a half before it touches the manifold, so there’s plenty of room to set the timing, what you said about the timing needing to be set at mid throttle though makes perfect sense, the advance doesn’t seem to be stuck, I can move the rotor a quarter inch or so with the cap off. I really think the distributor is ok, probably just not what I need for a street driven car. Thanks for the info, I’ll get with hallifaxhops and see what he thinks.
 
512Stroker said:
Your mechanical advance is stuck, that tach drive distributor is good trade bait. Check out Halifax shops he is a member here he always has rebuilt distributors for sale on the forum
Click to expand...

That's what I was going to add........it's either stuck, OR someone used it as a race piece and locked it out. But since he's saying he gets no more than 10* I'm going with stuck. lol
 
Also, FWIW, opinions will vary, but I normally never run a fuel filter in that location on a V8. I usually put the filter in the supply line from the tank just before the fuel pump. A LOT of factory applications had them there, so it's perfectly acceptable. It's a much safer place in case of a leak so as not to have spark introduced by possible contact with ignition wires. I have never once had any trouble with the filter affecting the supply of fuel putting it on the suction side and I've been doing it like that better than 30 years.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Also, FWIW, opinions will vary, but I normally never run a fuel filter in that location on a V8. I usually put the filter in the supply line from the tank just before the fuel pump. A LOT of factory applications had them there, so it's perfectly acceptable. It's a much safer place in case of a leak so as not to have spark introduced by possible contact with ignition wires. I have never once had any trouble with the filter affecting the supply of fuel putting it on the suction side and I've been doing it like that better than 30 years.
Click to expand...

Hey Rusty,
I agree, the factory SB position of the fuel filter isn't the best place in my opinion, it gets a lot of heat off the motor. I like where they placed the filter on the Hemi cars, and I believe the big block cars, close to the mechanical fuel pump. Definitely a cooler (temperature wise) place to put it. Getting cool air from the grille area.
 
Back in 1999, now over 125,000 mile ago, I installed a rather large, life-time, metal-can, 3/8 in/out, EFI filter, at the back, that I scrounged from a parts-catalog; never touched it since. She went 93mph in the 660 with the mechanical pump sucking thru it just fine. At 3467 pounds and 900ft elevation, IIRC, the Wallace puts that at 433hp.
Therefore;
I find no fault with a rear-mounted suck-thru filter.

on another note;
I'm also not a fan of an electric fuelpump, that doesn't have sense enough to shut off, when the engine does, or if the line springs a leak upstream, or if I am unconscious, upside down, on fire, and sliding backwards at 300 mph; to paraphrase John Force.lol.
I haven't yet been upside down, nor to 300mph, but I have been in a car on fire, on the street, with no firesuit. If it has happened to you, you may recall how hard it was to fight panic. And in just a few seconds, gasoline can cause a lotta lotta damage. See how great a fire, such a tiny flame kindles.....
 
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The main argument against a filter before the pump is that pumps don't like to suck....so anything between the pump and liquid gasoline is considered not the best. But, the advent of electric (vane type) pumps made pre-pump filtration more important.....that helped drive bigger and less restrictive filters. On my cars with vane pumps I run a big filter before the pump. On cars with a diaphragm pump, I am less worried about the odd spec of sand going through the pump....it won't care too much.

All that said....the OP's car does not appear to use an electric pump and is more or less following the OEM layout. Is it optimal for a 6 second car? No...but that's not what he has.
 
bradfields said:
View attachment 1715593544 View attachment 1715593545 Ok, I’ve installed a new thick carb gasket and studs, re-routed the PCV plumbing to the carb base and replaced the plastic fuel filter with a metal one, I can say that it runs MUCH better, it still isn’t quite right yet, but it is better.
After putting these parts on, I tried to dial the timing in and discovered that I’m getting no advance from the distributor, I have it set at 10 degrees BTC at idle and it stays at 10 degrees when increasing the engine speed. I’m using and old MOPAR Prestolite tach drive distributor that came with the engine and am using a stock coil and wires and one of those blue hi rev ignition modules.
I’m going to replace the distributor with something newer / better, what’s a decent distributor to get for a car that’s just going to be street driven?
Click to expand...

It’s been 40 plus years but if I remember correctly some of the Mopar race distributors had the advance fixed.

We used to set our timing at all in and then spin the motor over before applying power to the coil so you didn’t have a hard time cranking the car.

Maybe someone still has their old DC bible and can rummage through it.

Cliff Ramsdell
 
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