Trunk Mount Batt. Opinions needed

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Use star type lock washers to bite into the (clean) connections with dielectric grease. All the little things (voltage drops) end up adding up to slow cranking
 
67Dart273 said:
If you are having cranking issues with 1/0 it is not due to wire size, but rather something else, and there is lots of room

Wire end terminals.........wire terminals can be corroded or not making as great contact as you think
Switches. You are going through AT LEAST three switches to the starter........the disconnect, the Ford, and the original Mopar starter solenoid. Any one or two or all three could be introducing drop

The starter could have a problem

The ENGINE could have a problem

Have you done any "actual troubleshooting?" You know what a carbon pile tester is? Have you measured starter voltage and drop along the wiring in the system, and so on?

"Throwing parts" or "jacking up the radiator cap" is no way to fix anything, unless you simply like to spend money.

So!!!??? Do some checks. Get/ borrow a carbon pile tester. Get a multimeter and "rig" a long wire---which can be small, even no18---to reach to the far corners of the car, say 15-20ft long, with alligator clips each end.

Rig a remote starter to the starter relay

Check ground drop. You really should use TWO people. Clipe one probe of the meter to a good ground on the engine block. Stab the other probe into the top of the battery NEG teminal. Disable ignition so it will not fire. Crank the engine, read meter while cranking

Post the reading. You are hoping for a very low reading, the lower the better.

Now clip the meter to the starter side of the Ford solenoid. Stab the other into the top of the POS battery post. Crank and read. Same as above lower the better. You are hoping to see a FEW TENTHS of one volt

Now move up to the starter main terminal. Clip the meter there, and top on batter POS. Crank and read. Post reading.

Clip meter to starter main post and engine ground, crank and read. The higher the better Should have bare minimum 10V, acceptable is 10.5 or higher.
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the hot start problem could be too much ignition advance when cranking. An easy way to test that is to get the engine to the temperature where you normally expect hot start issues. Then disable the ignition,,, pull the coil wire,,,Then crank the motor. If the motor turns over fine then you have too much ignition advance at start up.
If the starter motor drags,, then you need to go back to post # 14 and check the voltage drops as recommended.
 
my68barracuda said:
the hot start problem could be too much ignition advance when cranking. An easy way to test that is to get the engine to the temperature where you normally expect hot start issues. Then disable the ignition,,, pull the coil wire,,,Then crank the motor. If the motor turns over fine then you have too much ignition advance at start up.
If the starter motor drags,, then you need to go back to post # 14 and check the voltage drops as recommended.
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and this^^ as well
 
Connections checked over and over. I am using Star type washers. It is possible that I cooked up the contacks on the soleniod (didn't think of that). I 1st will try to diagnose as suggested .
kursplat said:
well cripes, here ya go
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my68barracuda said:
the hot start problem could be too much ignition advance when cranking. An easy way to test that is to get the engine to the temperature where you normally expect hot start issues. Then disable the ignition,,, pull the coil wire,,,Then crank the motor. If the motor turns over fine then you have too much ignition advance at start up.
If the starter motor drags,, then you need to go back to post # 14 and check the voltage drops as recommended.
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I like this as well. I had cranking issues since new (6 years). My timing is set at 8 because if I went any more advanced it would not crank. 35 Total. No Vcan or it detonates. Reman stock dizzy with 1 Med. 1 Light spring. I used a piston stop to comfirm the balancer TDC mark is correct. I pulled the Dizzy to see if it was getting hungup or spring missing ect: but found no isues.Hoping it's Starter related but maybe motor ? Something too tight ? I sold my house and have no garage. It's currently in my Dad's garage but I have to get it out of there for the winter so really can't pull it apart if needed until the spring.Really missing my Garage

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I was having a hard time with mine. I put lugs for ground on the frame in a few spots, ran #1 welding cable to starter, ran #4 from alt to shutoff back to battery. I also have a big diesel battery. All of these together made the difference. No issues now. I was draining the battery every time I drove, hard, slow crank when hot. Now is all good. I should add, 440, trick flow 240, quench motor, powermaster starter buried in TTI 440-200. I heard lots of timing talk, but it didn’t crank with the ignition off either
 
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TheGrateRonzini said:
I was having a hard time with mine. I put lugs for ground on the frame in a few spots, ran #1 welding cable to starter, ran #4 from alt to shutoff back to battery. I also have a big diesel battery. All of these together made the difference. No issues now. I was draining the battery every time I drove, hard, slow crank when hot. Now is all good. I should add, 440, trick flow 240, quench motor, powermaster starter buried in TTI 440-200. I heard lots of timing talk, but it didn’t crank with the ignition off either
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Yes, if the motor does not crank good when hot with the ignition disconnected that is a sure sign of either a low battery or a wiring issue.
 
I just took a look at the wiring you drew. That is a total cluster F--k mess. Get rid of the ford solenoid . Your starter has one built in. All I did was run the Positive cable from the trunk to a positive bulk head on the front frame rail and used that as my positive terminal under the hood. Every other wire was left as the car came. I even have the original battery cable going to the starter running from the bulk head.

When you jump a car with cables you don't need all that spaghetti. I good set of jumpers and you don't even need a battery in the car your starting. Why that Mess?

When I was younger my dad would touch bumpers and vise grip a large wire from the car with the battery to the positive cable on the car without the battery. No problem at all spinning it over
My car is 13-1 compression and spins like the spark plugs are out. Get rid of the mess and stop thinking out of the box.

One cable from the cut off switch to the bulk head and one wire from the cut off to the ignition box. Anything more is not needed. My negative cable goes to the tab on the wheel house . Easy peasy LOL

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I was running the Ford soleniod because my Positive cable runs along the left interior of my car. The Ford soleniod keeps this wire dead until turning the key. I did this so I dont have to keep marshmello's on hand if I had a short.
I could do as you suggest and then add a Breaker or fusible link for safety.
Nice Ride by the way. I miss my 70 Duster
 
TheGrateRonzini said:
I was having a hard time with mine. I put lugs for ground on the frame in a few spots, ran #1 welding cable to starter, ran #4 from alt to shutoff back to battery. I also have a big diesel battery. All of these together made the difference. No issues now. I was draining the battery every time I drove, hard, slow crank when hot. Now is all good. I should add, 440, trick flow 240, quench motor, powermaster starter buried in TTI 440-200. I heard lots of timing talk, but it didn’t crank with the ignition off either
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Your Symtoms sounds like mine.TTI were fun changing my starter lol. I think I may try testing at front of car as suggested also . It won't cost me to try until I can get some help diagnoising . Three people built this car me,myself,and I with exception to the motor( machining and assembly).I'm not great with electrical but took my time and thought I got it right. But yes a little too much thinking out of the box at times.
 
Ton of cars wired exactly like that schematic you posted. Much safer than the minimum NHRA requirement.
 
Kendog 170 said:
Ok so I plan on redoing my trunk mount Battery wiring (68 Dart) due to cranking issues. I’m keeping 1ot Positive wire Batt. To Ford solenoid then solenoid to starter. 10Ga. Jumper on starter. Removing 10 Ga. That I had from Alt. (Denso 1 Wire) to Starter relay with fusible link. Changing to diagram with CD relay. What Ga. Should I use for that (Alt. to trunk) 4Ga.?

Also, what Ga. Should I be using on the Master Disconnect wiring?

My ground is 1ot. Currently goes to stud welded to rear frame rail. Another 1ot. From stud on front rail to engine block. I plan on keeping front rail to engine ground, but also running Battery ground wire to the starter mounting bolt. Back of motor to firewall is also grounded.

Debated eliminating to Disconnect entirely mostly street driven but still a good safety item. (Bumper mounted)

Thanks

View attachment 1715596132
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I just saw this thread.
I did the same thing on a 68 barracuda fastback , the ford relay died in about 8 months , went to the orig. 68 mopar relay that came on the car , been on there every since . I did have to replace the ns switch plug on it a couple of weekks ago .
 
Here is a nice clean compact. Battery right on the other side of the plate.

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I've never had one of the ford relays fail in 40+ years.

There are valid reasons to wire a car like the OP schematic.

Pick your way to skin the cat.
 
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crackedback said:
Here is a nice clean compact. Battery right on the other side of the plate.

View attachment 1715597726

I've never had one of the ford relays fail in 40+ years.

There are valid reasons to wire a car like the OP schematic.

Pick your way to skin the cat.
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Yep.

And as I tried to say, have, and will try to say, without voltage measurements that might show up a voltage drop problem or even a bad battery or starter, we are just "shooting in the dark." Not even laser sights do you any good if there's nothing there to hit.

One possibility, tho, is today's low quality parts. And make sure the "Ford" solenoid is not actually a continuous duty one, which has a much lower contact rating.
 
67Dart273 said:
One possibility, tho, is today's low quality parts. And make sure the "Ford" solenoid is not actually a continuous duty one, which has a much lower contact rating.
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Yes you may be right about the soleniod . Judging what I paid for it it's probably a peice of crap.I've been too busy right now to do anything yet but I'm going to purchase a high quality one weather I need it or not then start disgnoising . Thanks for all the coments everone . I will let you know how it works out .
 
famous bob said:
I just saw this thread.
I did the same thing on a 68 barracuda fastback , the ford relay died in about 8 months , went to the orig. 68 mopar relay that came on the car , been on there every since . I did have to replace the ns switch plug on it a couple of weekks ago .
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And I run 24 degrees of initial timing , so if u get everything right , that shouldn`t make a diff.
 
@Kendog 170

Unless that thing is 14:1,if it slow cranks with only 8* of initial timing, check the main ground wire REALLY good. Check positive cable as well for deterioration. There are all sorts of issues that arise from that one ground cable being loose or not having a great connection with your engine. Friend just went through weeks of charging issues, then checked ground cable, yep loose. Tightened up... engine cranks a bunch better and the charging issues resolved.

I like to do this if the engine cranks slowly. Take a jumper cable, attach at battery neg and the other end to the engine. Same as making the neg cable a BUNCH bigger. Does it crank easier? If so, you have a cable/ground issue.
 
Trust me I want it to be a ground. I'll take some pics next time I'm there to work on it. Without testing I'm guessing so I have to do this 1st . I dont have jumpers long enough to go from the trunck to the engine. I do suspect 1. the (Cheap) Ford solenoid , 2. Going to add copper star washers to connections ( already have steel ones there but just starting to show signs of rust). 3. as I said my Alt. charge wire goes to Factory starter relay and not back to Ford soleniod closer to Batt. 4. Wire sizing on Alt. and Master diss-connect.
 
Kendog 170 said:
. I dont have jumpers long enough to go from the trunck to the engine. .
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I already told you how to do this, and you don't need long jumpers

1....multimeter. "Rig" a piece of wire say 20 ft long. You can even "rig" an extension cord for the purpose. Sized does not matter. Clip one end to the battery NEG and run up front hook the wire to your multimeter. Connect the other probe to the engine block. Crank the engine and read the meter. This will tell you voltage drop in the ground circuit

2...Jumper method Take a decent jumper cable and connect to battery ground. Better if you have two people. Clamp other end to a solid clean ground on the car body. Such as the trunk latch, or other "big" fitting. See if this improves cranking

Then go up front and jumper the engine block to the body. Find a good point on the body it will have to be CLEAN Maybe the crossmemeber. Jumper from there to the engine block see if that changes.

A MULTIMETER IS BY FAR THE BEST TOOL IN THE PLACE. LEARN TO USE IT and you can find and solve hundreds of problems.
 
Draw out a diagram of the car's starting system, that is from body up to battery ground, from battery to disconnect to wherever that goes and on up to starter

Photograph a decent shot so we can read it and post it here. We/ you can measure voltage points along the path and it will show you instantly where the trouble lies, if drop is the problem.

This is no different than a street map. You leave you house. It's a 25mph street. You go down to the through street. It's a 35mph. You end up on highway whatever, a connector. It's 35 out of town, then 45 or 55, and then you get on the freeway, it's 70

All these changes are just exactly like battery cables. Each cable, each connection, each point in the system has RESISTANCE. And you have to measure that change with VOLTAGE under LOAD
 
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