Need some help from my head machining buddies

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pittsburghracer

pittsburghracer

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I’m getting the itch to buy something to improve my head seat valve angle machining. My buddy has he’s pretty sure a Peterson seat and guide machine. He hasn’t used it in over well over 10 plus years probably closer to 20 as he closed his shop. I honestly can’t remember what it even looks like but I know it has an air operated float table. Now if I would buy something like this can it be set up to do like 70-60-45-30-15 degree seats or 55 if I bought the cutters? He’s looking for around 2000.00 with tooling. He also had a mill but that would be to big for me. Thanks for any help.
 
Depends on which model it is. In order to do accurate work with carbide cutters the entire frame has to be rigid as well as the head table.

I used carbide pilots for rigidity, and those have to be checked for wear on the surface the cutter body rides on, as well as the cutter body itself.

It can’t be too rigid.
 
yellow rose said:
Depends on which model it is. In order to do accurate work with carbide cutters the entire frame has to be rigid as well as the head table.

I used carbide pilots for rigidity, and those have to be checked for wear on the surface the cutter body rides on, as well as the cutter body itself.

It can’t be too rigid.
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I’m going to meet him at his shop at 12 tomorrow. He is heading back to Florida on the 26th. He even said I could make payments.
 
pittsburghracer said:
I’m going to meet him at his shop at 12 tomorrow. He is heading back to Florida on the 26th. He even said I could make payments.
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Well...that makes the deal sweeter.

I have done many valve jobs with a Peterson that was not real rigid. You can do it, but you can’t crowd the tooling, or machine a big oversize valve job with just the seat tooling. I used a couple of cutters first to get the majority of the material out then finished with the seat cutter.

With some of the less rigid machines, you can move the entire head table machining the seat!!!
 
He did tell me it’s so much faster than using a Bridgeport mill as you don’t have to reset everything each time. I know a mill can do more but it probably another tool I wouldn’t use. I know having the ability to cut seats would come in handy.
 
The Peterson TCM are pretty good machines, a local guy has one and his table is pretty rigid. My old DCM Tech is built like a tank, and has variable speed driven by a VFD. The guy I know with the Peterson is able to use serdi type tooling.
 
If he has the level for it be sure to get it, they aren't cheap. I have to level mine constantly because the Peabody coal mine is now about a mile and a half away. I used to hardly ever have to level it, but now..... For every head.
 
Wow. I looked at some photos. Those things are dinosaur's.
 
I have a rotary phase converter I picked up years ago that was never used but I would have to check to see if it’s big enough.
 
Depending on motor hp, look into a vfd. I bought one of the 10hp ones from ebay to run my 3 phase ingersoll air compressor. Works great and is the size of a small shoebox.
 
I bought one for my Jet bridgeport 3hp for $80.00 off ebay and it works great

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As mentioned earlier you can't take big cuts with it. You'll have to toggle between 3 angle seat cutter and 75° bowl cutter when increasing valve size. The more angles you try to cut in one shot will cause more deflection. I have used a DCM, Sunnen VG20, and a Kwik Way Head Shop. The Kwik Way looks similar to the Peterson. It is not a ridgid machine, but can do good work once you learn the quirks.

Pic of the Kwik Way I use.
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To upgrade the seat cutting tooling to the “serdi style”, between cutter bodies, tip holders, an assortment of inserts, and a setting fixture....... it’s real easy to end up spending a couple grand.

The Goodson starter kit is about $1000.

I’d also buy a few new pilots of the real common sizes right off the bat.

I can’t offer any insight about the intricacies of using that type of machine....... all i’ve ever used are VGS-20’s and a VGS-19.
 
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I have a TCM also. Did upgrade to the replaceable cutters from goodson. I went to a 25hp rotary after my vfd died
It did not seem to like it if you instant reverse alot.
 
Ok I went to see it and man it’s parked in tight. Like I said he moved from Pa to Florida and closed the shop years ago. It’s dirty and would need some love to make it pretty and usable again. It’s a Winona (Van Norman) type RV12 machine with lots of well used tooling and spring pocket cutters but zero valve seat cutters. I wouldn’t pay 2000.00 for it when he wants 2000.00 for a Jet Mill sitting right next to it. He said make an offer so I have some research to do but I know the mill is to big for my shop and at 64 have never ran one. Moving either machine the 12 miles from his shop to mine would need hired experts.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Ok I went to see it and man it’s parked in tight. Like I said he moved from Pa to Florida and closed the shop years ago. It’s dirty and would need some love to make it pretty and usable again. It’s a Winona (Van Norman) type RV12 machine with lots of well used tooling and spring pocket cutters but zero valve seat cutters. I wouldn’t pay 2000.00 for it when he wants 2000.00 for a Jet Mill sitting right next to it. He said make an offer so I have some research to do but I know the mill is to big for my shop and at 64 have never ran one. Moving either machine the 12 miles from his shop to mine would need hired experts.
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I was dealing on a Peterson 25 recently....machine with stand and air float table and 40lbs of good tooling $1500.00.
 
He wants to unload it....... if the basic mechanicals of it are still good...... I’d say offer him a grand for it....... and go from there.

You should be able to move it on to a trailer with a pallet jack and some helpers.
 
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PRH said:
He wants to unload it....... if the basic mechanicals of it are still good...... I’d say offer him a grand for it.

You should be able to move it on to a trailer with a pallet jack and some helpers.
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I agree, moving machines is not as hard as you think, especially if you have a concrete floor to work with. I R an engineer, and I've been moving mills and lathes the Egyptian way for years. It's easy to roll them across the floor on three or four sections of 1/2" black pipe and a crow bar. I loaded these two 600+lb mills onto the trailer and off with the help of a buddy. I've done the same with a 2500 lb 14x40 metal lathe. Jack or pry the machine up onto short blocks and bolt a pair of boards to the base if the bottom of the base is not straight or even. Remove as much as you can and lower or remove the head to make it less tippy.

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That type of machine is excellent for productivity, because as mentioned, the air float table makes it quick to move from seat to seat. The real key to accuracy is getting the pilot centered dead true to the spindle, takes a bit of practice and "feel" Also, carbide pilots are better than steel. A bridgeport style mill with a rollover head fixture works great too, but takes longer
 
I get these stupid thoughts in my mind especially after helping my buddy redrill my new pushrod holes in my Edelbrock heads with his Bridgeport. I’m good at buying and lately bad at using new tools. At 8-10 dollars per hole my local machine shop is more than fair when I need or want bigger valves in my heads. But their valve angle choices are very limited. When they did a radius intake valve job (2.08) on a set of new Edelbrock heads it really screwed me.
 
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