Amp guage maxed out.

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Richie

Richie

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Hi everybody:

Something is haywire with the voltage regulator I guess but after buying two and having the same result is there one that will work? We've been through three alternators also. Plus the orange box that came with the distributor was dead, but I had a spare. We call my car Green Christine. When I was going down the HYW it was maxed out at a light at idle it's way down below 14.5. Nothing gets warm though. The battery stays cool and all of the wiring seems fine, not hot.

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Sorry there's some pics and it's a 69 Dart with a 70 340 in it
 
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When did this start happening ? Out of the blue or were there any parts replaced or modded before it happened ? How about a picture of your wiring connections to the VR and Alt ?
 
First thing to do is find out "does the VR have control?" Unplug it and see if charging stops. If it does very next thing is to make ABSOLUTELY certain the VR is well grounded.

AND PLEASE POST what in the hell that it is you are working on.........year make model and does it have the stock wiring/ components.
 
MoparLeo said:
When did this start happening ? Out of the blue or were there any parts replaced or modded before it happened ? How about a picture of your wiring connections to the VR and Alt ?
Click to expand...
It happened on installation while at the shop.
 
OK thanks for pics. Remove both push on wires from the alternator. Take a meter and check both field terminals at the alternator to ground. They should be OPEN that is infinite. I suspect the green one is shorted to ground. What you have there is a conversion from the 69/ earlier system to the 70/ later VR which is called "Isolated field"
 
Had a very intermittent short in my alternator. Burned up atleast 3 regulators. Got lucky when I finally found it. Measured .3 ohms for the field, rotated the pulley by hand and didnt come up again. VERY INTERMITTENT. Replaces the alternator and another regulator. No problems since.
 
Richie said:
Something is haywire with the voltage regulator I guess but after buying two and having the same result is there one that will work?
Click to expand...
When you have the same problem with multiple of the same replacement parts, the part is typically NOT the problem. UNLESS it is the wrong part.


Richie said:
We've been through three alternators also.
Click to expand...
Same as answer above, with one caveat... if you bought an alternator for a 69 and have the wiring / VR for a later model, the alternator would be wired different inside as 67dart273 mentioned. the 69 alt would be wired for 1 field wire vs 2 for the later electronic VR cars.


Richie said:
When I was going down the HYW it was maxed out at a light at idle it's way down below 14.5.
Click to expand...
your title says "Amp gauge maxed out" now you are quoting voltages. if you AMP gauge is pinned to the right there is a lot of charging going on. If the voltage is 14.5 the voltage regulator is doing its job but still do as 67Dart273 mentioned about removing wires and testing.


Richie said:
Nothing gets warm though.
Click to expand...
something is taking that max amperage that the charge indicator is showing

Richie said:
The battery stays cool and all of the wiring seems fine, not hot.
Click to expand...
have your felt the large wire bundle on the right side of the steering column behind where the key would be on a 67 or 68 (IIRC 69 is in the column)




Recently I drained my 67 Dart's 3 year old battery to the point it would just click. when I jumped it, it fired up but the amp gauge was all the way to the right, max charging. I drove it around for about 45 minutes and it stayed there. typically apon first start for a while it will go to the first bar to the right and in 5-10 minutes be back at center. I assumed that I had a problem and was ready to dive into battery, alt, VR, wiring, etc. then I got the idea to put the battery on a charger overnight. next morning started it up and guess what, charge indicator was back to its normal self.

QUESTIONS...
  1. Did the car originally have a newer style (electronic) VR?
  2. have you fully charged the battery then driven.
  3. have you had the battery tested
  4. have you had the alternator tested
  5. Have you had the charging system tested ( auto parts stores typically can do it)

my bet is the Alt is not correct for the VR as 67DArt273 is alluding to.


Note the differences between the two systems

1969 Alt VR testing



1970 Alt VR testing
 
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Richie said:
When I was going down the HYW it was maxed out at a light at idle it's way down below 14.5.
Click to expand...
I don't have a lot to add but it would be very helpful to know where this voltage measurement is being made.
The ammeter measures flow in or out of the battery. The range on a '69 ammeter is 40 to 40 amps, with zero in the center. So pegged is over 40 amps and will overheat any and every weak connection.
Keep this in mind too. That's 40 amps to the battery. The alternator is also supplying power to its field circuit and the ignition. So the output wire is carrying at least 5 amps more than the current going to the battery.
 
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One mistake is measuring battery voltage at idle. Rev it up and see where the voltage goes.
 
I hate to sound like a 'broken record' but in this day and age there is NO excuse for not owning a usable multimeter. "When I was a kid" you could not buy multimeters locally anywhere. Not in parts houses, not in hardware stores, and there were no Lowes or Home Depot. And there were no digital meters, and the only ones--analogue-- were always somewhat delicate. You could not toss them into the trunk and rattle them around washboard roads, not if you wanted them to work later on.

At the time I joined the Navy in spring of '68, there were sort of two 1/2 electronics stores in Spokane--and a multimeter from them was not cheap. At the time you could order import meters through some electronics catalogues, Lafayette Radio, Burstein-Appleby, or Allied Radio or the like. But that took a LOT of time..

My first meter, which I coveted closely was an aged old (I think RCA) VOM (Volt-Ohm-Milliameter) AND THEY HAD NO amperage scales, just small milliamp scales.

My first meter was older than and nowhere near as good as this one, but this was the idea--you plugged the test probes into jacks to select the meter range you wanted

vintage-s-army-signal-corps_1_f583467e8e9e097355c44b2ef804f540.jpg
 
^^I don't believe those tell much^^ Test the SYSTEM on the car. Read the shop manual.
 
@Richie lets break this down into smaller pieces.
Richie said:
It happened on installation while at the shop.
Click to expand...
What was installed at the shop?
Is this a '69 ?
I'm looking at the photos and like Del said it looks like a '70 up alternator and regulator, which is fine, but the wire colors on the voltage regulator don't look like they match.
On a '70 up type regulation, the wires on the alternator field terminals should connect to the regulator. Chrysler used blue and dark green for those wires.
We also see the regulator is also attached with just one screw, which is screwy.
67Dart273 said:
OK thanks for pics. Remove both push on wires from the alternator. Take a meter and check both field terminals at the alternator to ground. They should be OPEN that is infinite. I suspect the green one is shorted to ground. What you have there is a conversion from the 69/ earlier system to the 70/ later VR which is called "Isolated field"
Click to expand...
Do this check.
Set the meter to Ohms. Engine off, key off.
Place one probe on the ground. Alternator housing will work.
Place the other probe on terminal.
Then check the other terminal.

If the alternator's field circuit checks out OK (not shorted to ground), then reconnect the wires and start the engine.

Set the meter to DC Voltage. Very Important.
Measure voltage to ground at
the battery positive post.
the alternator's output stud
And read the voltmeter in the car
Do this both at slow idle and with the rpms up to 1250.

Dana67Dart said:
your title says "Amp gauge maxed out" now you are quoting voltages. if you AMP gauge is pinned to the right there is a lot of charging going on. If the voltage is 14.5 the voltage regulator is doing its job but still do as 67Dart273 mentioned about removing wires and testing.
Click to expand...
Yes. Please clarify what has been done to the car.
Voltage readings are different than charge readings.
Is there both an ammeter and a voltmeter inside?
Does the voltmeter only go on when the key is on?
 
Vin. LH23D9B16710
Dart Custom
2 DR HT
273
1969
Hamtramck MI.
Last six digits are the production numbers

When I got the car eighteen years ago it had a 318 in it with electronic ignition witch worked fine. Found a 340 for it ten years ago and finally had it done bought all new electronic ignition. Wiring harness shorted out at the shop and was.......fixed. I was talking to a wiring guy on the phone today where I could explain things much better I'm not a very good reader answerer ...much better on the phone and from what we discussed the best thing I can come up with is take the car in and get a new painless wiring kit put in because of what happened and also because of how old the original is.
 
Richie said:
Wiring harness shorted out at the shop and was.......fixed. I was talking to a wiring guy on the phone today where I could explain things much better I'm not a very good reader answerer ...much better on the phone and from what we discussed the best thing I can come up with is take the car in and get a new painless wiring kit put in because of what happened and also because of how old the original is.
Click to expand...

So was this a recent incident, in other words had it been running OK for some time after being "fixed?"

I'm not sure I understand why you cannot explain what the mechanic told you. Maybe he dressed things up in bullshit. Did he suggest there are multiple problems he did not fix?

I do understand, however, that old harnesses can have "problems"
 
67Dart273 said:
So was this a recent incident, in other words had it been running OK for some time after being "fixed?"

I'm not sure I understand why you cannot explain what the mechanic told you. Maybe he dressed things up in bullshit. Did he suggest there are multiple problems he did not fix?

I do understand, however, that old harnesses can have "problems"
Click to expand...
Yes the car was running fine with the 318 in it with the old harness. In August 2019 I took a 1970 340 in to get rebuilt and put in this 69 Dart. The shop was busy and it took 14 months to get the car back but just before it was finished when he was about to start it for the first time the harness shorted out...I wasn't there at the time. It was repaired with some wiring from a dodge Van as far as I know. After that this over charging issue came up as soon as it was started. He's changed voltage regulators and alternators. witch doesn't fix the problem. I'm sorry for going all over the place in my head with this...But I'm thinking the most sensable thing to do is take the grimy old harness out of there and get a painless or kwik wire kit put in it
 
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY THE WRONG ALT FOR THIS CAR! I went tru this twice on my barracuda. you need the squareback (1970&up) alt. if you haven't burnt your wiring harness yet your lucky. when people convert to the electronic regulator (and electronic ignition) the changes to the harness mimick the 70&up underhood schematic. problem lies with the parts store monkeys. or in my case ME. If you ask for an alt for a 69 Dart you will get the one designed for the mech regulator and it is wired differently and not compatible. it physically looks similar until you look and compare both. always ask for a 72& up Alt to get the right one.
 
golden boy said:
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY THE WRONG ALT FOR THIS CAR! I went tru this twice on my barracuda. you need the squareback (1970&up) alt. if you haven't burnt your wiring harness yet your lucky. when people convert to the electronic regulator (and electronic ignition) the changes to the harness mimick the 70&up underhood schematic. problem lies with the parts store monkeys. or in my case ME. If you ask for an alt for a 69 Dart you will get the one designed for the mech regulator and it is wired differently and not compatible. it physically looks similar until you look and compare both. always ask for a 72& up Alt to get the right one.
Click to expand...
There was a square back in it with the 318 and it got tossed because it was so ...dirty and old. Very stupid thing to do I see now. Then Lordco gave the shop what ever the computer tells them to give them as a replacement
 
Golden Boy
If the person doing the work understands what they have, then it doesn't matter which style of housing is used. Will come back to this in the next post.


Richie - based on what you've posted the only logical conclusion we can draw is that the person there doesn't know electrical systems, particularly these.
Since the forum posts are a struggle for you, my suggestion is find someone else to take it to.
I'd suggest @Tooljunkie but he's probably too far away. However he's on your side of the border which is a bigger issue than distance for the present time.
 
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Roundback and Squareback refer to the style of housing.
edit: This post has been copied over to a new thread
Identifying Chrysler Alternators (1960-1976)

Roundback through model year 1969.
upload_2020-10-16_8-46-58.png


Roundback for model years 1970-71
upload_2020-10-16_8-51-8.png


Squareback
upload_2020-10-16_8-59-17.png


Revised Squareback
Is most easily differentiated by the thin middle between the housings.
upload_2020-10-16_9-6-47.png

Overall these are slightly bigger but can usually be made to fit in the same location as the earlier alternators.

THE STYLE OF CASTING CAN NOT BE RELIED ON TO MATCH THE WIRING WITH THE VOLTAGE REGULATOR
First lets look at identifying the two standard alternator connection types.
That will be followed by a link to a post by @67Dart273 illustrating some of the ways rebuilders chop up and change them.

Terms:
Brush is a spring loaded electrical contact made of carbon.
This is a brush assembly.
upload_2020-10-16_9-52-39.png


Slip ring is the spinning contact surface.
upload_2020-10-16_9-59-1.png


Field refers to the rotor's slip rings and electrical windings.
Field refers to the electromagnetic field created when electricity flows through those windings.


Functional Identification
Grounded-brush Alternator
One brush assembly is grounded to the housing.
The other brush is insulated from ground and has a terminal.
The terminal gets connected to the output wire from the voltage regulator.
upload_2020-10-16_10-1-5.png


Isolated-Field Alternator
Both brush assemblies are insulated from the housing and have connecting terminals.
Both terminals get connected to the voltage regulator.

70%20sh%2071.jpg

from https://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/serviceHighlights/70 sh 71.jpg

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