Trick Flow SBM Heads

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B3RE said:
Ok, first, I am more interested in seeing the numbers at the track than what the dyno had to say. A dynos accuracy is almost always questionable.

That being said, I previously mentioned that I hoped it would make 620. It made 631hp at 6800, and 563tq at 5100. This is with the heads as is, right out of the box, other than a spring change to better suit the camshaft.

I am anxious to see the track numbers, because the dyno operator insists the dyno is 4 to 4.5 percent low compared to before a software update that reduced the numbers. I will not make that claim, but if the track numbers support it, then that's what it is.

The takeaway is that obviously the port works very well, especially with a 2.02" valve, but lacks the cross sectional area to carry the torque curve with a 416" motor. That will limit high rpm horsepower, but makes for a broad torque curve in the mid range, which is what you want from a street/strip engine. Overall, I'm very happy with the performance considering what these heads were asked to do. We could have gotten a little more compression by nipping the heads a bit, but the goal as to test the heads as manufactured.

I still say this is the best bang for the buck head that uses a standard valvetrain. Sure you can buy another head for less money, but to bring it up to this level of quality and performance, it will cost far more. Period! You may be able to port heads yourself, but unless you are willing to do it for others for free, you have to consider the value of your time. If you are willing to do them for free, PM me your address so I can send all of my cheaper heads to you and save hundreds of dollars.....except I won't. I still have to replace all the hardware, guides, seats, etc. that will cost me more time and money. Its a hard sell to say you can get by cheaper with a lesser head.
Click to expand...

extremely impressive. It should run 9’s easily unless the car is extra heavy
We figured my old W5 motor( when i had it) made an honest 640
It went 9.80’s at 135 weighing 3350. This should be very close, maybe faster If it weighs less.
 
B3422w5 said:
extremely impressive. It should run 9’s easily unless the car is extra heavy
We figured my old W5 motor( when i had it) made an honest 640
It went 9.80’s at 135 weighing 3350. This should be very close, maybe faster If it weighs less.
Click to expand...
Thanks! The chassis is still getting some work, so final weight is still up in the air. I think it will be lighter than that though. Maybe Sterling can shed more light on that.
 
B3RE said:
Ok, first, I am more interested in seeing the numbers at the track than what the dyno had to say. A dynos accuracy is almost always questionable.

That being said, I previously mentioned that I hoped it would make 620. It made 631hp at 6800, and 563tq at 5100. This is with the heads as is, right out of the box, other than a spring change to better suit the camshaft.

I am anxious to see the track numbers, because the dyno operator insists the dyno is 4 to 4.5 percent low compared to before a software update that reduced the numbers. I will not make that claim, but if the track numbers support it, then that's what it is.

The takeaway is that obviously the port works very well, especially with a 2.02" valve, but lacks the cross sectional area to carry the torque curve with a 416" motor. That will limit high rpm horsepower, but makes for a broad torque curve in the mid range, which is what you want from a street/strip engine. Overall, I'm very happy with the performance considering what these heads were asked to do. We could have gotten a little more compression by nipping the heads a bit, but the goal as to test the heads as manufactured.

I still say this is the best bang for the buck head that uses a standard valvetrain. Sure you can buy another head for less money, but to bring it up to this level of quality and performance, it will cost far more. Period! You may be able to port heads yourself, but unless you are willing to do it for others for free, you have to consider the value of your time. If you are willing to do them for free, PM me your address so I can send all of my cheaper heads to you and save hundreds of dollars.....except I won't. I still have to replace all the hardware, guides, seats, etc. that will cost me more time and money. Its a hard sell to say you can get by cheaper with a lesser head.
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Great job. I just got in my car from a walk and will reread it later. Did you happen to list valve lift and did the rockers you used need corrected. Thanks
 
pittsburghracer said:
Great job. I just got in my car from a walk and will reread it later. Did you happen to list valve lift and did the rockers you used need corrected. Thanks
Click to expand...
John,
We were shooting for .700" net, but lost a bunch from the pushrod angle. We ended up with .685" net, and it was so close with the T&D rocker at that lift, correction would have been less than .010", so we left it alone. The dyno operator commented on how smooth it was, and it didn't skip a beat.
 
B3422w5 said:
I dont think you are WAY off at all.
I have a 69 Dart. 3300 with me in it( i am 320)
Bone stock 360 shortblock with replacement pistons 30 in the hole
Mildly worked eddie heads( my guy just looked at them and suspect they go 255-260)
Airgap
950
260/264 flat tappet, 565/565 lift
Dougs Headers 1 5/8 into bullet type muffs
5100 flash 8 inch. 4.10 gear
Car has run 11.26@ 118.40 with a 727
Has been 11.33 at 117.70 with 904( i know the 904 vert is not right)
Flat hood, no hood-scoop. Shift at 6100 usually.
Think it ran good for what it was. Just sold the shortblock.
Heads are getting some work, and they and the heads, headers, carb, etc are going on a 12.5 comp 418
Click to expand...

Thanks I just wish it would of ran better. You have a very nice and fast car. I really look forward to hearing how your car runs with the bigger engine
 
B3RE said:
Ok, first, I am more interested in seeing the numbers at the track than what the dyno had to say. A dynos accuracy is almost always questionable.

That being said, I previously mentioned that I hoped it would make 620. It made 631hp at 6800, and 563tq at 5100. This is with the heads as is, right out of the box, other than a spring change to better suit the camshaft.

I am anxious to see the track numbers, because the dyno operator insists the dyno is 4 to 4.5 percent low compared to before a software update that reduced the numbers. I will not make that claim, but if the track numbers support it, then that's what it is.

The takeaway is that obviously the port works very well, especially with a 2.02" valve, but lacks the cross sectional area to carry the torque curve with a 416" motor. That will limit high rpm horsepower, but makes for a broad torque curve in the mid range, which is what you want from a street/strip engine. Overall, I'm very happy with the performance considering what these heads were asked to do. We could have gotten a little more compression by nipping the heads a bit, but the goal as to test the heads as manufactured.

I still say this is the best bang for the buck head that uses a standard valvetrain. Sure you can buy another head for less money, but to bring it up to this level of quality and performance, it will cost far more. Period! You may be able to port heads yourself, but unless you are willing to do it for others for free, you have to consider the value of your time. If you are willing to do them for free, PM me your address so I can send all of my cheaper heads to you and save hundreds of dollars.....except I won't. I still have to replace all the hardware, guides, seats, etc. that will cost me more time and money. Its a hard sell to say you can get by cheaper with a lesser head.
Click to expand...
That thing is making some STEAM, kudos! How big is the roller in that engine?
I agree that if you are starting from scratch, this is probably the best bang for your buck head.
 
flyfish said:
That thing is making some STEAM, kudos! How big is the roller in that engine?
I agree that if you are starting from scratch, this is probably the best bang for your buck head.
Click to expand...
Thanks! Cam is in the high 270s.

Edit: Sorry, mid 270's.
 
B3RE said:
Thanks! The chassis is still getting some work, so final weight is still up in the air. I think it will be lighter than that though. Maybe Sterling can shed more light on that.
Click to expand...
I am not sure what the final weight will be, I will scale it before I race it. My 340 went 9.08 in my buddys Plymouth Arrow at 2300 lbs, and this engine is more powerful. It is going in a 93 Daytona that started life as a Super Stock car, so my guess is it will weigh 2500 to 2600 lbs. It has to weigh 2800 if I run NHRA Super Street.
 
B3RE said:
Ok, first, I am more interested in seeing the numbers at the track than what the dyno had to say. A dynos accuracy is almost always questionable.

That being said, I previously mentioned that I hoped it would make 620. It made 631hp at 6800, and 563tq at 5100. This is with the heads as is, right out of the box, other than a spring change to better suit the camshaft.

I am anxious to see the track numbers, because the dyno operator insists the dyno is 4 to 4.5 percent low compared to before a software update that reduced the numbers. I will not make that claim, but if the track numbers support it, then that's what it is.

The takeaway is that obviously the port works very well, especially with a 2.02" valve, but lacks the cross sectional area to carry the torque curve with a 416" motor. That will limit high rpm horsepower, but makes for a broad torque curve in the mid range, which is what you want from a street/strip engine. Overall, I'm very happy with the performance considering what these heads were asked to do. We could have gotten a little more compression by nipping the heads a bit, but the goal as to test the heads as manufactured.

I still say this is the best bang for the buck head that uses a standard valvetrain. Sure you can buy another head for less money, but to bring it up to this level of quality and performance, it will cost far more. Period! You may be able to port heads yourself, but unless you are willing to do it for others for free, you have to consider the value of your time. If you are willing to do them for free, PM me your address so I can send all of my cheaper heads to you and save hundreds of dollars.....except I won't. I still have to replace all the hardware, guides, seats, etc. that will cost me more time and money. Its a hard sell to say you can get by cheaper with a lesser head.
Click to expand...



Do you think a 2.055 or 2.08 intake valve would help or would not matter much because of port design ?
 
B3RE said:
Ok, first, I am more interested in seeing the numbers at the track than what the dyno had to say. A dynos accuracy is almost always questionable.

That being said, I previously mentioned that I hoped it would make 620. It made 631hp at 6800, and 563tq at 5100. This is with the heads as is, right out of the box, other than a spring change to better suit the camshaft.

I am anxious to see the track numbers, because the dyno operator insists the dyno is 4 to 4.5 percent low compared to before a software update that reduced the numbers. I will not make that claim, but if the track numbers support it, then that's what it is.

The takeaway is that obviously the port works very well, especially with a 2.02" valve, but lacks the cross sectional area to carry the torque curve with a 416" motor. That will limit high rpm horsepower, but makes for a broad torque curve in the mid range, which is what you want from a street/strip engine. Overall, I'm very happy with the performance considering what these heads were asked to do. We could have gotten a little more compression by nipping the heads a bit, but the goal as to test the heads as manufactured.

I still say this is the best bang for the buck head that uses a standard valvetrain. Sure you can buy another head for less money, but to bring it up to this level of quality and performance, it will cost far more. Period! You may be able to port heads yourself, but unless you are willing to do it for others for free, you have to consider the value of your time. If you are willing to do them for free, PM me your address so I can send all of my cheaper heads to you and save hundreds of dollars.....except I won't. I still have to replace all the hardware, guides, seats, etc. that will cost me more time and money. Its a hard sell to say you can get by cheaper with a lesser head.
Click to expand...

I can't agree more with this. I bought a set of CNC speedmasters last year during the 40% sale. $1100 for the heads shipped to me. Then I added another $900+ to get them setup the way I wanted.

$265 - Valve job/Flow heads before & after VJ
$100 - Shipping to/from PRH
$200 - Correction Kit from Mike
$300 - Springs/Keepers/Retainers for Roller Mech Cam

Total of $1965

If I had the numbers in front of me back in November of last year, I'd have bought the trick flows without question.
 
TurboGLH said:
I can't agree more with this. I bought a set of CNC speedmasters last year during the 40% sale. $1100 for the heads shipped to me. Then I added another $900+ to get them setup the way I wanted.

$265 - Valve job/Flow heads before & after VJ
$100 - Shipping to/from PRH
$200 - Correction Kit from Mike
$300 - Springs/Keepers/Retainers for Roller Mech Cam

Total of $1965

If I had the numbers in front of me back in November of last year, I'd have bought the trick flows without question.
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more. If a guy is looking for some serious performance I would say trick flow is the way to go.
Now if a guy is having his motor done at a machine shop and they said do you want us to rebuild your heads? Or do you want to just slap on some speedmasters? At the Speedmaster price point it becomes a no-brainer... I have just as much or more into mine 596 Factory heads then my Speedmasters..
And like you said if I had it all over to do again I wouldn't have a set of $800+ 596 heads sitting on my shelf...
Edit.. in Speedmaster boxes LOL...
 
Last edited:
TurboGLH said:
I can't agree more with this. I bought a set of CNC speedmasters last year during the 40% sale. $1100 for the heads shipped to me. Then I added another $900+ to get them setup the way I wanted.

$265 - Valve job/Flow heads before & after VJ
$100 - Shipping to/from PRH
$200 - Correction Kit from Mike
$300 - Springs/Keepers/Retainers for Roller Mech Cam

Total of $1965

If I had the numbers in front of me back in November of last year, I'd have bought the trick flows without question.
Click to expand...


Porter need to raise his prices.
 
B3RE said:
Ok, first, I am more interested in seeing the numbers at the track than what the dyno had to say. A dynos accuracy is almost always questionable.

That being said, I previously mentioned that I hoped it would make 620. It made 631hp at 6800, and 563tq at 5100. This is with the heads as is, right out of the box, other than a spring change to better suit the camshaft.

I am anxious to see the track numbers, because the dyno operator insists the dyno is 4 to 4.5 percent low compared to before a software update that reduced the numbers. I will not make that claim, but if the track numbers support it, then that's what it is.

The takeaway is that obviously the port works very well, especially with a 2.02" valve, but lacks the cross sectional area to carry the torque curve with a 416" motor. That will limit high rpm horsepower, but makes for a broad torque curve in the mid range, which is what you want from a street/strip engine. Overall, I'm very happy with the performance considering what these heads were asked to do. We could have gotten a little more compression by nipping the heads a bit, but the goal as to test the heads as manufactured.

I still say this is the best bang for the buck head that uses a standard valvetrain. Sure you can buy another head for less money, but to bring it up to this level of quality and performance, it will cost far more. Period! You may be able to port heads yourself, but unless you are willing to do it for others for free, you have to consider the value of your time. If you are willing to do them for free, PM me your address so I can send all of my cheaper heads to you and save hundreds of dollars.....except I won't. I still have to replace all the hardware, guides, seats, etc. that will cost me more time and money. Its a hard sell to say you can get by cheaper with a lesser head.
Click to expand...
Very impressive Mike!, I'm sure I am just one of a hundred guys you talked to but I was waiting to here about that engine. I was talking to YR not long ago about our conversation and the opinion you gave me about my combination and you were dead on. I don't have timeslips yet but it sure runs like an overachiever with the cam I have and cannot wait to get it to the track next year.
 
lead69 said:
Very impressive Mike!, I'm sure I am just one of a hundred guys you talked to but I was waiting to here about that engine. I was talking to YR not long ago about our conversation and the opinion you gave me about my combination and you were dead on. I don't have timeslips yet but it sure runs like an overachiever with the cam I have and cannot wait to get it to the track next year.
Click to expand...
And I hope to be there in line up next to you and crush you with my cheap unported minuscule Speedmaster heads...:poke:...
 
j par said:
And I hope to be there in line up next to you and crush you with my cheap unported minuscule Speedmaster heads...:poke:...
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One thing I can always count on is no matter how long I'm away from fabo Jpar will always be here when I come back with the same lines lol. Don't ever change man, you are a model of consistency!.

And honestly I enjoy you're humor even if it is at grade school level most of the time lol.
 
yellow rose said:
Porter need to raise his prices.
Click to expand...

I certainly had no complaints. It's just an additional cost that the SM heads need to be competitive vs a more quality part, and that all adds up.
 
lead69 said:
One thing I can always count on is no matter how long I'm away from fabo Jpar will always be here when I come back with the same lines lol. Don't ever change man, you are a model of consistency!.

And honestly I enjoy you're humor even if it is at grade school level most of the time lol.
Click to expand...
I must say your consistency is strong as well.. you consistently have a fast car that never gets to the track.
And as far as school goes I'll be taking you there when we finally do lineup...:D..
 
TurboGLH said:
I certainly had no complaints. It's just an additional cost that the SM heads need to be competitive vs a more quality part, and that all adds up.
Click to expand...
yes I don't think the Speedmaster heads are the ultimate competitive buy a long shot... But definitely a much better bang-for-the-buck as a factory replacement...
 
RedB. said:
Do you think a 2.055 or 2.08 intake valve would help or would not matter much because of port design ?
Click to expand...
A larger valve without reworking the port would tend to make the port less efficent, even if it gained a couple numbers in flow. Once the port velocity goes sonic, it doesn't matter how big a valve you put in, it isn't going to flow any more air. The port has to get bigger.
 
As I've stated before, Trick Flow is really more than just ... Flow. It's about quality control and quality parts. However, when are they really needed in the performance game? I've seen so many small block mopars running deep into 10's with cast heads..... just say'n.
 
B3RE said:
A larger valve without reworking the port would tend to make the port less efficent, even if it gained a couple numbers in flow. Once the port velocity goes sonic, it doesn't matter how big a valve you put in, it isn't going to flow any more air. The port has to get bigger.
Click to expand...


Our buddy Tim has a set and wants to bring them over and do some testing one of these days on my flowbench. I didn’t take any measurements when I went over to see them at his shop but I did notice that the way they machined the pushrod holes it wouldn’t be as easy to open them up as they are on an Edelbrock Head. But without seeing what the airspeed is at the pinch it my be a non issue.
 
j par said:
yes I don't think the Speedmaster heads are the ultimate competitive buy a long shot... But definitely a much better bang-for-the-buck as a factory replacement...
Click to expand...
Not a bad head for the price.

speedmaster heads2.jpg


20191211_154605.jpg


20191211_154914.jpg
 
pittsburghracer said:
Our buddy Tim has a set and wants to bring them over and do some testing one of these days on my flowbench. I didn’t take any measurements when I went over to see them at his shop but I did notice that the way they machined the pushrod holes it wouldn’t be as easy to open them up as they are on an Edelbrock Head. But without seeing what the airspeed is at the pinch it my be a non issue.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he told me the last time I talked to him that he got a set for his sons car. I'm sure there are some gains to be had with a bit of effort. I practically begged Trick Flow to use a standard offset big block rocker on the head long before they were released. They could have pushed that pinch back at least another .150", and had rockers available without reinventing the wheel. Just slide them on small block shafts and go. I think they could still do an intermediate head that way, with say a 2.055 or 2.08 valve, and then do a larger offset race type head with a 2.08 to 2.100 and really move some air.
 
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