Solutions for too much compression
- Thread starter Valiant360420
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Valiant360420
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Spark plug pics coming tomorrow. Damb I wish I could find my cylinder hear displacement measurements.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Road speed? About where are your throttle blades at 50 mph? You're assuming for the sake of your argument he has 2.45 or so gears and is hovering on the transfer slot @50mph. You high pressure sell and toss a lot **** around, you spin 'wether it of your own misinterpretation or simply a debate tact you use'
Now If I'm right... and you learn something, are you going to be upset still?
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yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
It depends on gearing, MAB, emulsion and load. Not road speed.
I’m not saying he is or isn’t lean without seeing his plugs at least.
What I do know is something is wrong, and I do know you have no idea what road speed the booster comes on. You certainly don’t have enough information to even make a WAG.
Valiant360420
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Valiant360420
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yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Not even CLOSE to lean. In fact, it’s a tad rich.
That plug MAY be one range too hot, but I doubt it.
The ground wire looks like the initial timing is almost to the curve and the total is at the base. The total is ok but it looks like it can use a bit more initial. Are you SURE a your timing light isn’t junk? Can you borrow a different one and check it?
Valiant360420
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I will borrow another timing light to verify mine is ok. A question about reading plugs. Do they need to be cleaned off after you make an adjustment to give you a good read on your new setting?
Or does their appearance just change right away after you two me the motor differently.
These plugs have not been taken out for a while, and I have had the timing all over the place recently.
ir3333
Well-Known Member
is your mopar performance distributor the model built by Mallory?
as already said...those tiny weights and pink springs will be all in
at 1800 rpm...start bouncing and create all kinds of detonation and spark scatter
as already said...those tiny weights and pink springs will be all in
at 1800 rpm...start bouncing and create all kinds of detonation and spark scatter
Valiant360420
Member
So I am at a point right now where I am using only machanical advance. Initial at 14 and total at 24. It’s all in by 2500 or so. If I advance it more I get some pinging. Does it make sense to put in stiffer springs and delay the advance till a higher rpm? Then I may be able to run more initial.
It’s running pretty good now, and I will probably try to add in some vacuum advance and see what happens.
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This is from the Innovate Motorsports website. You know the guys that sell AFR monitoring equipment for tuning....
Race Engine Jetting - Tuning a Race Engine :: Engine Tuning Resources & Tips.
Most people think of tuning a carburetor via two circuits: the mains and the idle mixture. For this article, we're going to go way deep on the idle circuit and ignore the mains/wide-open throttle. Contrary to popular belief, the mains don't really come into play until engine speed reaches 2,500- 3,000 rpm and assumes a low-vacuum mode, like when your right foot is getting acquainted with the carpet.
In other words its load dependent. There is very little load at cruise speed especially on straight flat roads.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Whatever it is, and I'm fair
If it will run 24 locked out, set it that way.
Your plugs show additives, the reddish. Shell gas can leave that color as well but usually its octane boost.
If you look at the tang your timing is definitely as much as you can get. It's about middle but past the bend and toward the ring.
I dont see it being rich, but you can cut the threads off and see down where the porcelain meet the metal case, it should be brown/tan , not black.
I knew it.
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Oogliboogli
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Here's the original article that was linked from innovate:
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/0510ch-carburetor-tuning-gas-mileage
Wow look at that the mains don't start coming until 3000 RPM.
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/0510ch-carburetor-tuning-gas-mileage
Wow look at that the mains don't start coming until 3000 RPM.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Well all of these performance cars and even 3.23 cars, on the freeway are 2800-3000+. You're grasping,I get it.
BUUUUUUUT AGAIN ,he had pinging not lean surging and if you ever tuned your **** right you...to get there you would experience that to know what it feels like.
Op. Lean to till it surges then go back up 2 jets is my and many others method used to set the primary cruise. Carburetors are not complicated.
You guys arent dumb, you're just not the winner here if there was one...lol.
Lean till it surges at cruise , then jet up 2. That's how I learned to do it.
Thanks Justin for pointing out what nobody else does.
Thanks Justin for pointing out what nobody else does.
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Your statement was:
Look at the chart mains flow doesn't completely take over until 4500 RPM. So unless you Cruise around doing 45-50 MPH @ 4500 rpm then you're still on the T-slot.
Here ya go something that might help you understand this a little better and what RPM you should be doing with tyre size and gear ratio.
What is cruising rpm? Why is it important?
What is cruising rpm? Why is it important?
Engine RPM @ 60 MPH Chart
Your cruising rpm will affect fuel mileage and engine durability. It is important to get it right so you can enjoy your vehicle for years to come.
You want the cruising rpm to be in the Sweet Spot of your camshaft. This will give you good power and throttle response.
If the rpm is too high, it will:
This chart shows the rpm @ 60 mph, based on gear ratio and tire height.
Rear Axle Gear Ratio Tire Diameter
24" 26" 28" 30" 32" 34" 36" 38" 40" 42" 44"
2.18 1,831 1,690 1,570 1,465 1,373 1,293 1,221 1,157 1,099 1,046 999
2.50 2,100 1,938 1,800 1,680 1,575 1,482 1,400 1,326 1,290 1,200 1,145
2.74 2,301 2,124 1,973 1,841 1,726 1,625 1,534 1,545 1,381 1,315 1,255
3.08 2,587 2,388 2,218 2,070 1,940 1,826 1,725 1,634 1,552 1,478 1,411
3.23 2,713 2,504 2,326 2,170 2,035 1,915 1,809 1,714 1,628 1,550 1,480
3.50 2,940 2,714 2,520 2,352 2,205 2,075 1,960 1,857 1,764 1,680 1,604
3.73 3,133 2,892 2,686 2,507 2,349 2,212 2,089 1,979 1,880 1,790 1,709
3.90 3,276 3,024 2,808 2,621 2,457 2,312 2,184 2,069 1,966 1,872 1,787
4.10 3,444 3,179 2,952 2,755 2,583 2,431 2,296 2,175 2,066 1,968 1,879
4.56 3,830 3,536 3,283 3,064 2,873 2,704 2,554 2,419 2,298 2,189 2,089
4.88 4,099 3,784 3,513 3,274 3,074 2,894 2,733 2,589 2,460 2,236 2,139
Now tell me who's doing 4500 RPM at 45-50 AGAIN!!!???
Even with a 4.88 gear and 24 inch tyre they just break 4000 RPM.
Oh and you were talking 45-50 MPH and this chart is for 60 MPH so the RPM's will be lower still.
Look at the chart mains flow doesn't completely take over until 4500 RPM. So unless you Cruise around doing 45-50 MPH @ 4500 rpm then you're still on the T-slot.
Here ya go something that might help you understand this a little better and what RPM you should be doing with tyre size and gear ratio.
What is cruising rpm? Why is it important?
What is cruising rpm? Why is it important?
Engine RPM @ 60 MPH Chart
Your cruising rpm will affect fuel mileage and engine durability. It is important to get it right so you can enjoy your vehicle for years to come.
You want the cruising rpm to be in the Sweet Spot of your camshaft. This will give you good power and throttle response.
If the rpm is too high, it will:
- Burn more fuel,
- Generate more heat, and
- Wear engine parts faster.
- Provide poor performance, and
- Cause the torque converter to slip, causing excessive heat.
This chart shows the rpm @ 60 mph, based on gear ratio and tire height.
Rear Axle Gear Ratio Tire Diameter
24" 26" 28" 30" 32" 34" 36" 38" 40" 42" 44"
2.18 1,831 1,690 1,570 1,465 1,373 1,293 1,221 1,157 1,099 1,046 999
2.50 2,100 1,938 1,800 1,680 1,575 1,482 1,400 1,326 1,290 1,200 1,145
2.74 2,301 2,124 1,973 1,841 1,726 1,625 1,534 1,545 1,381 1,315 1,255
3.08 2,587 2,388 2,218 2,070 1,940 1,826 1,725 1,634 1,552 1,478 1,411
3.23 2,713 2,504 2,326 2,170 2,035 1,915 1,809 1,714 1,628 1,550 1,480
3.50 2,940 2,714 2,520 2,352 2,205 2,075 1,960 1,857 1,764 1,680 1,604
3.73 3,133 2,892 2,686 2,507 2,349 2,212 2,089 1,979 1,880 1,790 1,709
3.90 3,276 3,024 2,808 2,621 2,457 2,312 2,184 2,069 1,966 1,872 1,787
4.10 3,444 3,179 2,952 2,755 2,583 2,431 2,296 2,175 2,066 1,968 1,879
4.56 3,830 3,536 3,283 3,064 2,873 2,704 2,554 2,419 2,298 2,189 2,089
4.88 4,099 3,784 3,513 3,274 3,074 2,894 2,733 2,589 2,460 2,236 2,139
Now tell me who's doing 4500 RPM at 45-50 AGAIN!!!???
Even with a 4.88 gear and 24 inch tyre they just break 4000 RPM.
Oh and you were talking 45-50 MPH and this chart is for 60 MPH so the RPM's will be lower still.
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MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
You don't get that it doesn't matter what the **** your chart says
I freeway cruise w a 3.73 at 3800, higher side but not even 3.91's. . .
It does on my stuff and many other peoples stuff , Holley published fkd up **** in some their books as well btw. Damn its called Real world vs the book or chart.
They're fascinating and open a new train of thought,l on a occasion but it doesn't always play out that way. If you know the realm of build/performance level you can narrow things down pretty quick. I have worked on a lot of ****. Do with yours what you want and quit hammering the same dead end.
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yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
LOL you are STILL wrong. You don’t need to cut the threads off looking at idle and cruise on the plug.
Its NOT lean. I don’t care if the gas came from bumfukt Egypt.
OP, when you get tired of this shot, up the primary main jet up 6-8 numbers and see what happens. Then post pictures.
And do NOT lock out the distributor. That’s what people do when they don’t know what happens with “modern” igntion systems.
I may have a video showing what happens. When I saw a video of what happens, I went out and bought a distributor machine to not only verify what happens, but to learn how to correct it.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Ok, we are just spinning our wheels. Do you have a chrysler ignition box, or something else.
If you pay the freight both ways, you can send me your distributor AND whatever box you have and I will fix it.
You MUST have the distributor and the box to fix it.
I’ll even make a video and post it to YouTube.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
At this stage in the game with that cylinder pressure you can't really use the vacuum advance even when it vacuum drops off and it goes back to Mechanical it doesn't happen fast enough and you'll get a clack a ping but it can be destructive and you don't want that. And now adding onto that you're at this stage of the game where its pretty efficient for what it is on the octane...see it revolves around that limiter...but with that kind of compression and it's about horsepower if youre going to run around on a ragged Edge motor so I wouldn't bother trying to find out the obvious and in that break something . And be wary of people asking you to send them your stuff, some of these guys dont ever post pics of anything they claim and 'might' have a mopar..."armchair racers" as they say.
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So you have a data logger to verify what happens on "your" stuff of its just more BS to get out of looking stupid when you have no idea what you're talking about.
You Dumbass the article that info came from innovate is a 550 HP small block chevy. Yeah all "YOUR" stuff must defy the laws of physics that where used to design carburetors in the first place.
The original poster stated about his gears:
So now tell me where his "Cruise RPM" would be with 3.55 or 3.73 with a 26 inch tyre?
BTW that chart is pretty accurate for my 3.73's and 27 inch tyre.
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yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Here you go you ignorant, mouthy fool. Keep telling people to lock their **** out. You don’t know how wrong you are.
Now I’m educating you, for free. Learn something.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Yes. I guess I should make some more videos because evidently this is an issue for some with hard heads.
All these boxes retard with RPM. All of them. They don’t all retard the same amount, and they don’t all retard at the same RPM.
So if you don’t test what you have to see what you have, or, you just lock it out, your timing will NOT be what you think it is at RPM.
That is just a fact.
One interesting note...the box I’ve tested with the least amount of retard is a 1980’s MP Gold Race box.
That thing retards 1 degree at 10K, and yes, my machine goes that high. In fact, it will go to 12k.
Special thanks to William Baldwin for posting a video that made me by my machine, and to my mentor, Tuner, who bails me out when I go over the wall and lose my mind.
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