"Dart67"
Well-Known Member
^^^THIS !
The impossible to solve overheating problem
- Thread starter purplehazenils
- Start date
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^^^THIS !
tinmanz
tinmanz
I would try changing the diameter of my water pump pulley
This may sound pretty dumb, but have you checked to see if the fan is turning in the right direction?
black betty
Well-Known Member
I don't know if you resolved this but I doubt the fan and shroud is the issue for a car traveling at 45. If the car is moving the fan is doing nothing. Its why formula 1 cars dont have fans. I would guess its the pump or the quality of the radiator. We are running almost the exact same fan and rad setup and my car doesn't over heat. I am using a BeCool rad and spal fan which my make the difference. I also don't have the seal between the hood and radiator support. A thermal gun would help a lot. Inlet and outlet temps of the rad even the actual temp of the engine in different spots. You can get a ryobi one for around $40 and it will be accurate enough for what you are doing. It will be money well spent if it gives you some direction.
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As long as we're beating a dead horse. 
FWIW, a laser temp gun helped me determine air flow problems. A thermal imager would be useful also. In my case at idle, air was being sucked out from under the hood past the front of the radiator and back through again. I basically overcame the issue with two spal hd fans with sealed shroud and a radiator flap/gasket. Then I created a new problem of blowing out a ton of hot air - needing air cleaner ducting to avoid sucking in the hot air. Looking at the OP pic, that's going to be a problem there - at idle, that wide open cleaner is sucking in some nice hot air from the exhaust headers and if the radiator/pump/fan are doing their job. I'm confused a bit by the low-speed heat issue but that could just be low rpm coolant flow. Or else, the OP has issues unrelated to cooling - and something like blow-by, etc.
FWIW, a laser temp gun helped me determine air flow problems. A thermal imager would be useful also. In my case at idle, air was being sucked out from under the hood past the front of the radiator and back through again. I basically overcame the issue with two spal hd fans with sealed shroud and a radiator flap/gasket. Then I created a new problem of blowing out a ton of hot air - needing air cleaner ducting to avoid sucking in the hot air. Looking at the OP pic, that's going to be a problem there - at idle, that wide open cleaner is sucking in some nice hot air from the exhaust headers and if the radiator/pump/fan are doing their job. I'm confused a bit by the low-speed heat issue but that could just be low rpm coolant flow. Or else, the OP has issues unrelated to cooling - and something like blow-by, etc.What type of water pump are you running again? (6 vane or 8 vane impeller) Seen this issue more than enough times, owner suspects, verifies, replaces everything, still runs hot, pump was a 6 vane, switches to an 8 vane and problem solved.
purplehazenils
Well-Known Member
So, I left the car to a very good mechanic last month who has been trying to solve this problem. He started going through everything I had already done and some more.
He says there was garbage blocking some coolant passages which he found after pressure testing it. Unfortunately he says that the block is cracked/rusted through somewhere as well..
This makes a lot of sense to me, the way it was overheating regardless of running conditions implies it is not a fan issue for example.
Thanks for the help!
He says there was garbage blocking some coolant passages which he found after pressure testing it. Unfortunately he says that the block is cracked/rusted through somewhere as well..
This makes a lot of sense to me, the way it was overheating regardless of running conditions implies it is not a fan issue for example.
Thanks for the help!
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Like you said in your 1st post almost at the beginning... "gonna have a mechanic test to determine if the heads or block are cracked"
"Overheats no matter stopped or moving, new this and that, got worse out of nowhere etc..."
Glad you took it somewhere and figured it out.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Those factory 7 blade a/c cams pull some air indeed.
The op might try blue devil block sealer to limp it along.
purplehazenils
Well-Known Member
A few updates.
-The block was cracked but Im not sure where, in any case the mechanic had it welded.
-He started it up again but there was a huge pressure build up and a freeze plug was thrown out of the car.
-This made him suspect a problem in the heads. He reasoned that the engine block is too big and simple for a major blockage in a coolant passage or similar.
-He took the heads off and found that whoever build the engine put a gasket on that was blocking a coolant passage, see pictures. His theory is that this worked but eventually some garbage blocked the other passages which were taking all the flow and bam this super overheating problem was born.
-The heads are now warped because of this so the mechanic has sent them to some friends in Poland to rebuild and machine them.
The guy working on the car is Polish and a sort of mechanical genius. He can be a bit difficult to understand but hes the type of guy that fixes new Audis when the official dealerships give up. So, I feel happy to be in good hands and finally get this sorted out.
-The block was cracked but Im not sure where, in any case the mechanic had it welded.
-He started it up again but there was a huge pressure build up and a freeze plug was thrown out of the car.
-This made him suspect a problem in the heads. He reasoned that the engine block is too big and simple for a major blockage in a coolant passage or similar.
-He took the heads off and found that whoever build the engine put a gasket on that was blocking a coolant passage, see pictures. His theory is that this worked but eventually some garbage blocked the other passages which were taking all the flow and bam this super overheating problem was born.
-The heads are now warped because of this so the mechanic has sent them to some friends in Poland to rebuild and machine them.
The guy working on the car is Polish and a sort of mechanical genius. He can be a bit difficult to understand but hes the type of guy that fixes new Audis when the official dealerships give up. So, I feel happy to be in good hands and finally get this sorted out.
did you check for any corrosion blockage of your water pump/timing chain cover (long term storage) caused a corrosion problem in mine
well,---my 1969 340 barracuda has a overheating problem !! upon investigation/tear down concluded to the fact that the passages in the timing cover/water pump housing are corroded shut .... cleaned them out with a scraper and a shop vac. not sure if there is enough (meat) on the passenger side to seal the pump properly//half way to a timing chain check,,,
purplehazenils
Well-Known Member
Havent seen anything myself and have not heard anything from the guy working on the car, do you have any pictures?
DemonK9
Well-Known Member
.............and no fan shroud/or inadequate shroud, to force pulling air through the rad, and not around it.
Although you have found (or your new mechanic) other issues causing your overheating problems.....that little fan and no shroud is not helping you cool anything........you might want to upgrade to duals and proper shroud to eliminate future cooling problems.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Let the polish genius know that the rear passages are to be open and the front closed/blocked.
That way the coolant flows through the engine block up through the back of the heads and forward to the front and out the upper hose via inake manifold.
If your genius opens those up.... it wont cool evenly and youll have for certain a new over heating problem .
That way the coolant flows through the engine block up through the back of the heads and forward to the front and out the upper hose via inake manifold.
If your genius opens those up.... it wont cool evenly and youll have for certain a new over heating problem .
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Wow. Just wow. Chrysler NEVER had OE cooling issues. So we are going to swap in some unengineered junk, use a cheap assed electric fan that at best is in the way and blocking flow at speed and is most likely just worthless and then wonder why there are cooling issues.
Now, I just read some dude says the block is cracked somewhere, so he did some "welding" on it!!!! WTF?? To weld cast iron and do it correctly you need preheat, post heat and a controlled cool down process. And it will still warp the crap out of every surface and hole in the block.
This is a mess. If the block was broke it should have been replaced.
The radiator should go into the scrap bin, replaced by a radiator designed to fit the chassis, with TWO cores and no more of at least 1 inch.
Ditch that junk fan and use a good, belt driven fan. The power you THINK you save is ate up and them some by the fact you can't control engine temp.
Buy a real, high flow water pump and thermostat. That's a Milodon or Flowkooler pump and a Stewart Componants thermostat.
Then, make sure your water pump is turning FASTER than the crank. Overdrive the water pump, just like Chrysler did.
You do that, you'll be able to drive through hell with lucifer in the passenger seat and stay at 180.
What a mess.
Now, I just read some dude says the block is cracked somewhere, so he did some "welding" on it!!!! WTF?? To weld cast iron and do it correctly you need preheat, post heat and a controlled cool down process. And it will still warp the crap out of every surface and hole in the block.
This is a mess. If the block was broke it should have been replaced.
The radiator should go into the scrap bin, replaced by a radiator designed to fit the chassis, with TWO cores and no more of at least 1 inch.
Ditch that junk fan and use a good, belt driven fan. The power you THINK you save is ate up and them some by the fact you can't control engine temp.
Buy a real, high flow water pump and thermostat. That's a Milodon or Flowkooler pump and a Stewart Componants thermostat.
Then, make sure your water pump is turning FASTER than the crank. Overdrive the water pump, just like Chrysler did.
You do that, you'll be able to drive through hell with lucifer in the passenger seat and stay at 180.
What a mess.
famous bob
mopar misfit
AGREE WITH THE ABOVE , I EXPERIMENTED WITH THAT STUFF ALL LAST SUMMER , YELLOW ROSE IS RIGHT ON .
I`D B REAL WARY OF SOME ONE TELLING ME HE WELDED MY BLOCK AND IT BEING CRACKED W/O SEEING IT TOO !
purplehazenils
Well-Known Member
No matter how much you and a lot of other people want to blame the fan, it has no effect at 50mph, its a physical impossibility. Sorry.
The crack at the bottom of the block was welded properly by someone who specializes in welding cast.
I now have the car back and does not overheat running or standing still with precisely the same parts as before.
Had I gone with your solution to just swap in non OE "junk" I would have a lighter wallet and a car that still overheats chronically. Now that would have been a true mess.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
The fan is in the way at 55. Just like a crap shroud.
I don't know what you did to fix it. I'm glad it's fixed, but using a bunch of mismatched stuff is a bad way to start.
If the block was not machined after welding, it wasn't done correctly.
I can weld cast iron. I will do it to save something of value. Something that can't be replaced. Most of the time it's not worth it.
ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
Overall great thread for cooling issues. Glad the OP got it sorted out. It is funny about all the comments about the "bad" electric fan. Its like everyone who said it was bad missed the part where at speed, it still overheated. And then it turns out to be a bad head gasket install blocking water and now the "bad" fan is working right. Let that be a lesson to some of you.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I have news. A "bad" gasket is gullshit. "Bad gaskets" have been post fodder forever. All head gaskets on V engines have differences between left and right sides and "they work just fine." That is by design. I've no idea what the REAL answer was, here, but it wasn't "a bad gasket."
ChuckDock
Well-Known Member
its not bullshit if the wrong gasket was used:
He took the heads off and found that whoever build the engine put a gasket on that was blocking a coolant passage, see pictures.
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MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
It is bulshit if you don't even know what you're talking about. Don't come here knowing nothing about it and start telling people you hope they learned their lesson that is so lame .The gaskets only go on one way no matter what side you put the head gasket on it'll always be right because of the offset dowel pin holes. It's supposed to block the front coolant passage cuz it wants it all to go up into the back of the heads and then forward and out the thermostat housing. That's how the cooling system was designed!
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