Gah!! Old cars!! (steering Qs)

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RabidScott

RabidScott

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Stupid old cars!
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So the idler was trashed on my Dart I just bought so I figured now would be a great time to upgrade to the fast ratio arms.

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I got the new idler installed and fitted, had to clearance the exhaust pipe a bit but no biggie with a few swift whacks with the 5 lb Motivator.

Try taking the steering arm off and literally exploded a two jawed puller. Order up the heavy duty mamma-jamma, get it on and the arm slides off like butter on a hot biscuit.

First I saw the keyed splines and was worried the new arm might not slide on up and sure enough it didn't. Take a closer look and the new arm has a smaller hole than the old arm. Awwww fffffffffiddlesticks.

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So now I'm kinda wondering whether I should go back the way I came and get the short idler or suck it up an put in a new steering gear?

What years had the smaller sector shaft?

Do they make a large sector shaft fast ratio arm?

Any steering gear source recommendations?

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll pop?
 
Generally older arms 72/ earlier are small sector (spline), UNLESS parts swapping has been going on
 
Is it power or manual steering? I used a moog for my manual it fit perfectly. For power there is 2 different sizes I can't remember what year started the larger size! 73 iirc? Someone probably knows looks like you need the smaller one.
 
Alright, thanks guys! It's a '74 with power steering so I should have know it'd be the larger sector. Learned something new. :BangHead:

I found this, I don't know why I don't do more research myself sometimes.
Steering Box Info

Anyone make a large sector fast ratio steering arm? I would imagine not since pretty much everything before '73 was small sector, but who knows... EDIT: FirmFeel makes one!!

Anyone here used a FirmFeel box before?

The earlier boxes are all out of stock at RockAuto, I was considering just replacing it.

Man, this car stuff snowballs outta control fast......:eek:
 
RabidScott said:
Alright, thanks guys! It's a '74 with power steering so I should have know it'd be the larger sector. Learned something new. :BangHead:

I found this, I don't know why I don't do more research myself sometimes.
Steering Box Info

Anyone make a large sector fast ratio steering arm? I would imagine not since pretty much everything before '73 was small sector, but who knows... EDIT: FirmFeel makes one!!

Anyone here used a FirmFeel box before?

The earlier boxes are all out of stock at RockAuto, I was considering just replacing it.

Man, this car stuff snowballs outta control fast......:eek:
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Yea 74 is a large. Firm feel makes one for both large and small but they aint cheap. Someone posted a link above. If it was me I'd just get a moog or proforge and not worry about the fast ratio thing but that's just me im cheap.
 
dartfreak75 said:
Yea 74 is a large. Firm feel makes one for both large and small but they aint cheap. Someone posted a link above. If it was me I'd just get a moog or proforge and not worry about the fast ratio thing but that's just me im cheap.
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Yeah, I hear you, but I love a car that steers and handles well. I was thinking this was gonna be an easy install but you know how cars are.

These are the Proforged fast ratio arms but the pitman is the earlier small hole as I just found out.
 
It can really get overwhelming if you let it ....and usually I let it!!
 
How much difference would these give a car with the stock 24:1 manual steering?
 
Mtrhead said:
It can really get overwhelming if you let it ....and usually I let it!!
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After I got over my initial annoyance at the steering arm I powered on and yanked old the old torsion bars and slammed in the 1.03" ones. That was much more straight forward thankfully!! :D
 
OP you need to be careful what you have and what you buy. Look at your first photo. The stud direction changed between 72 and 73 regardless of sector spline size. Your studs point down, which is the 73/ later style. Like this:

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The 72/ earlier style linkage had the studs reversed, pointing "up" like this

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I looked up the part number on that one pictured and its a early version. You need the later version. The one you have is for 68-72

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I have a firm feel stage 2 box. I love it.
No road wonder, tight like a new car but still has a good power steering easy turn at slow speed or parked. Very happy. Was not cheap but quality never is.
 
dartfreak75 said:
I looked up the part number on that one pictured and its a early version. You need the later version. The one you have is for 68-72
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The studs on the arms I have both point down, both the one on/off the car and Proforged 103-10031. I think they're a generic B/E Body fitment and would technically fit the 73+ a-bodies if the steering sector was smaller.

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You could not install the Proforged 103-10031 so the stud pointed up because the bend in the arm would make the end occupy the same location as the starter. I'm pretty sure its tapered as well so it can only go on one way. I guess to use this arm on the pre-73 A-bodies you'd need a 73+ centerlink. Interesting they wouldn't note that in the part description.

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Syleng1 said:
I have a firm feel stage 2 box. I love it.
No road wonder, tight like a new car but still has a good power steering easy turn at slow speed or parked. Very happy. Was not cheap but quality never is.
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I'm strongly considering one of their boxes because if the prices on the webpage are correct its only about $225 more the large sector fast ratio arm. I could get the small sector I need plus there's peace of mind in knowing the steering box is good for a few more miles.

Were any other adjustments needed once you got it in the car or was it a bolt in and go kind of arrangement?
 
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RabidScott said:
I'm strongly considering one of their boxes because if the prices on the webpage are correct its only about $225 more the large sector fast ratio arm. I could get the small sector I need plus there's peace of mind in knowing the steering box is good for a few more miles.

Were any other adjustments needed once you got it in the car or was it a bolt in and go kind of arrangement?
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no adjustments needed. Dropped in and ran it. I also added a power steering cooler, and new lines I bought elsewhere. I bought the box outright so I did not send back the core. There are other boxes out there that are smaller but I wanted a factory box for my car. Good luck also don’t forget to rebuild the coupler to the steering shaft. There can be a lot of play there.

I also believe the pitman arm up or down is 64-72 (Small sector) is up for the shaft and 73-76 (large sector) is down. In almost 40 years messing with these cars this has been true to me unless the cars have been monkey with.
 
RabidScott said:
but I love a car that steers and handles well.
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fast ratio arms,by themselves, will not make your 74 Dart anything but what it is.
Get rid of that slippery truck steering wheel,
and that over-boosted steering box,
and figure out how to install 245s or better on the front end, with some decent caster and about .5* of negative camber.
Install some 1.03 bars,
a 1.125 Sway bar and
some HD rear springs,some sweet shocks,
and some 275s minimum out back.
Now yur ready for faster arms.
BTW
The PS is already faster than manual. 3.5 turns, for me, with a small steering wheel,is just fine on the street.

I know trying to fit 275s out back won't be cheap, so if you don't do it, then with the other mods mentioned, she will be a pos handler on 255s.
If 255s is all you will do, then the recipe is different.

But on the street it don't much matter until the car keeps doing 180s at all the wrong times. If you don't have a 360, this might not be a problem for you.
A 360 tends to throttle steer,lol.
A 318 tends to plow.
A slanty just pisses me off, until you put 4.30s in it and a 2800 minimum stall; then it's like a 318 with attitude. plowing in, but squirting out.

Plowing is bad; there's no worse feeling than coming into a turn too hot,
seeing the curb coming,
and knowing this is not gonna end well.
Whatever you do;
Good luck keeping it between the curbs. I highly recommend cheap steelies, until you get her dialed in.
 
67Dart273 said:
Be specific. "What years" are you referring to. The diagrams I posted are correct. The 73/ later factory linkage studs points DOWN
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dartfreak75 said:
Is it power or manual steering? I used a moog for my manual it fit perfectly. For power there is 2 different sizes I can't remember what year started the larger size! 73 iirc? Someone probably knows looks like you need the smaller one.
Click to expand...

dartfreak75 said:
I looked up the part number on that one pictured and its a early version. You need the later version. The one you have is for 68-72

View attachment 1715618807
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I was specific! The pitman arm he has is for a 68-72. It should be pointing up! Im not sure how much more specific I could be?
 
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