Horsepower 410 stroker build

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Jonnylightening said:
I'm using one of those as well. I kinda went overkill on my kit. I got the Scat kit with forged crank and pistons. I'm planning on spraying it so wanted the extra strength. Kinda why I'm leery on the factory bolts
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2 things...

1. If you were planning on spraying it, you should have gone with studs in the first place. I would at the very least use ARP bolts, as they are far superior to the factory bolts.

2. You really don't need a windage tray. Many cars are running hard without...mine for example doesn't have one, and it runs low 10's.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
I torque the ARP studs the same as the Milodons. 85ft
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ARP studs should be 110 ft lbs

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My 410 stroker is going to approach its 6th year in service.. I slapped a dual quad tunnel ram on it and got it broke in.. immediately took it to the dragstrip and gave it hell for 3 years... Now with a little bit more tame cam and rear end gears and full Street attire I'm still giving it hell...
I just dropped on a hundred shot and have capability to do 200...
Instead of a windage tray I just put 7 quarts in my 8 quart pan..
Original Factory main cap bolts with not a worry in the world...
Has anybody talked to you about having to modify possibly the bolt under the oil pump? Or having to use a factory one there anyways...
 
flyfish said:
ARP studs should be 110 ft lbs

View attachment 1715621913
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MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Milodon says 85ft lbs
Arp calls for more I think, on the studs.
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I stated this on page 2. However its clamping force, 85 works. I'm not telling anyone to do it how I do, just stating how I did it. My 410 had arp studs in all, was line honed and the machinist at the time recommended 85lbs and 114 distorted the cap too much. It worked fine, no walk..etc.
 
I'll have to check, but I don't think there is any oil in my son's pan. lol maybe a little :lol:
 
Crazy when you have the same folks on ignore and you see posts 'seemingly' addressing no one...then realize "ah ha, I know why" ..lol
 
RustyRatRod said:
I don't believe I would run a baffled pan AND a windage tray.
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Then your (drag race style) oil pan is very deep end to end. Keep reading on brother!

mbaird said:
I just run a baffled pan and studs. Not sure how a windage tray would add to that...any oil getting to my crank is coming from above and I would think a tray would exacerbate the problem by trapping pooled oil closer to the crank allowing it to be whipped up again.

Maybe I am visualizing this wrong ?
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The oil is (or should be) thin enough to exit windage tray easy enough. The windage tray openings should be opened wide for a quick mass exit. The oil should not have the ability to pile up on itself and cause an interference issue. If it did/does, you have the wrong weight oil. Once the oil hits the tray, the trailing oil tends to follow. The oil that doesn’t follow has a chance of being wrapped up around the crank. This is why a tray is mounted close to the rotation mass.

The oil, as it comes off the crank is being thrown off with force. Any oil in front of it gets shoved out. It should not collect or pool in the pan whatsoever.

As the oil exits the baffle, it is centered or to the side of the opening slightly. This should appear as a heavy draining. This is what prevents the oil being slammed into the pan & splashing the oil back up.

The deep pan is the second half of the system. The best pan is a drag pan, a basic box end to end that is very deep. These can be run without a windage tray. A pan shy of a full all out drag pan can probably very well make excellent with a windage tray working with it. It depends on how deep and lengthy the pan is.

To finish off the best possible set up is to run a crank scrapper. Use it with a windage tray and a deep pan if possible.

A baffled oil pan is great but not exactly always coupled with the best design or depth. While the baffles should be keeping the oil pick up covered, the pan design may do nothing for windage by itself.


yellow rose said:
I run a baffled pan, crank scraper and a windage tray.
Pan baffles have nothing to do with windage trays.
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THIS!! ^^^^^^^^^^^

And who’s that, irissie ushou-Ooo-Booo scrapper guy again?
 
flyfish said:
2 things...

1. If you were planning on spraying it, you should have gone with studs in the first place. I would at the very least use ARP bolts, as they are far superior to the factory bolts.

2. You really don't need a windage tray. Many cars are running hard without...mine for example doesn't have one, and it runs low 10's.
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YES! To #1!!!!!

What I said above to #2.
What oil pan are you running? What is your set up like?

j par said:
Instead of a windage tray I just put 7 quarts in my 8 quart pan..
Original Factory main cap bolts with not a worry in the world...
Has anybody talked to you about having to modify possibly the bolt under the oil pump? Or having to use a factory one there anyways...
Click to expand...

I don’t remember anyone having to modify a bolt, but yes to studs being modded.

Your oil pan is 8Qt.’s? And your run 7 in it?

Take 3 quarts out and pick up some HP, ET & MPH.
You have waaaaaayyyyy to much oil in there.
 
j par said:
Original Factory main cap bolts with not a worry in the world...
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That's great but this guy ACTUALLY wants to make power and not have the worlds second slowest stroker! :D and now defamatory trickflow comments in 3,2,1
 
Torque is torque, does not matter the fastener. You can torque a stud to stock specs and the cap will have the same clamping force/distortion as a bolt. Even with identical torque though the stud can be tight sometimes due to the size of the hole in the main cap and cause misalignment, also the lower torque setting will negate some clamping force therefore somewhat reducing the advantage of studs. Bolts to bolts is definitely not an issue if the torque is the same. The only real way to know if things are "right" is to check clearances.
 
rumblefish360 said:
YES! To #1!!!!!

What I said above to #2.
What oil pan are you running? What is your set up like?



I don’t remember anyone having to modify a bolt, but yes to studs being modded.

Your oil pan is 8Qt.’s? And your run 7 in it?

Take 3 quarts out and pick up some HP, ET & MPH.
You have waaaaaayyyyy to much oil in there.
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Right now I'm using factory main bolts....I know I know, windage tray, 7qt. Kevco oil pan with built in baffle, and HV oil pump. My top top end is my limit as I running gasket matched port/bowl blended EQ heads. I'm also running a Weiand DP with 750QFT carb. My cam is a Howard's hydraulic Roller
 
rumblefish360 said:
YES! To #1!!!!!

What I said above to #2.
What oil pan are you running? What is your set up like?



I don’t remember anyone having to modify a bolt, but yes to studs being modded.

Your oil pan is 8Qt.’s? And your run 7 in it?

Take 3 quarts out and pick up some HP, ET & MPH.
You have waaaaaayyyyy to much oil in there.
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Hi Rob,
Canton oil pan and HV pump.
 
lead69 said:
Torque is torque, does not matter the fastener. You can torque a stud to stock specs and the cap will have the same clamping force/distortion as a bolt. Even with identical torque though the stud can be tight sometimes due to the size of the hole in the main cap and cause misalignment, also the lower torque setting will negate some clamping force therefore somewhat reducing the advantage of studs. Bolts to bolts is definitely not an issue if the torque is the same. The only real way to know if things are "right" is to check clearances.
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Sir the point of a stud is to eliminate twist and stretch that a bolt has. Its friction at the thread, twist in the shank, and friction at the head... that leads to inaccurate clamping force/reading with the bold absorbing some tq.
Studs are stationary and you have friction at the nut only. More accurate/even clamping force and reading.

For the reader,
fact..
A main stud with the same torque value has more clamping force than a bolt.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Sir the point of a stud is to eliminate twist and stretch that a bolt has. Its friction at the thread, twist in the shank, and friction at the head... that leads to inaccurate clamping force/reading with the bold absorbing some tq.
Studs are stationary and you have friction at the nut only. More accurate/even clamping force and reading.

For the reader,
fact..
A main stud with the same torque value has more clamping force than a bolt.
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Not my point sir,you misread what I am saying, I am talking torque and how it pertains to the concentricity of the bore. I have swapped out bolts for studs and used the same torque value. Yes studs are an advantage over bolts even at the same torque (which is why I did it) but its a bigger advantage if you align hone the block and use the higher torque that arp recommends, obviously having even more clamping force.
 
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I run the ARP studs with a Girdle in my stroker and specs are 85flbs max on the main caps , Hughes instructions in the kit and a bolt under the pump . Pump casing was clearanced to allow no interference between bolt head .
 
lead69 said:
Not my point sir,you misread what I am saying, I am talking torque and how it pertains to the concentricity of the bore. I have swapped out bolts for studs and used the same torque value. Yes studs are an advantage over bolts even at the same torque (which is why I did it) but its a bigger advantage if you align hone the block and use the higher torque that arp recommends, obviously having even more clamping force.
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Do your homework, you're missing it.
It's not about line honing the block, the caps..
do you know what they do under torque? How about excessive torque? You don't understand, and yet...you are set.

Keep on keeping on.
 
67 gt said:
I run the ARP studs with a Girdle in my stroker and specs are 85flbs max on the main caps , Hughes instructions in the kit and a bolt under the pump . Pump casing was clearanced to allow no interference between bolt head .
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same here ,so far it has worked out well have about 10,000 miles and engine is being torn down now will be checking everything
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Do your homework, you're missing it.
It's not about line honing the block, the caps..
do you know what they do under torque? How about excessive torque? You don't understand, and yet...you are set.

Keep on keeping on.
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Wow,sir, just stick to seeing if you can catch a fingernail on the parting line and "run it" lmao.
 
lead69 said:
Wow,sir, just stick to seeing if you can catch a fingernail on the parting line and "run it" lmao.
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Take it out of context and pretend you know it all while really coming off butthurt. "Lmao." :rolleyes:


To the rest reading, as I said in my orginal post...you use a bore gauge to measure cap alignment, though as with your eyes... you can spot crappy machine work with your finger nail, be it parting lines 'one side higher than the other' , finish... your eyes spot it and you hand goes out...Any fool with a brain knows this.

Best of luck, everyone.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Take it out of context and pretend you know it all while really coming off butthurt. "Lmao." :rolleyes:


To the rest reading, as I said in my orginal post...you use a bore gauge to measure cap alignment, though as with your eyes... you can spot crappy machine work with your finger nail, be it parting lines 'one side higher than the other' , finish... your eyes spot it and you hand goes out...Any fool with a brain knows this.

Best of luck, everyone.
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Dude, all I can say is I thought jpar was bad but you take the cake lol.
 
lead69 said:
Dude, all I can say is I thought jpar was bad but you take the cake lol.
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Well that says a lot about you, I've had him on ignore for over a year. You and rumble as well. I swear you two were 'touched' by god.
Maybe some of you 'argumentive types' are bi polar? In that case...i Hope you get the help you need guys...Take care...and... please, dont give up. Don't take the easy way out. I know its hard and eating that bullet would stop the pain of having to be you... but ...you can do it. Just call a friend..ooh yeah..****..you dont have any...aye..well uh..you can call your local suicide hotline maybe? or start a thread ...and we can do a poll. God bless.
 
Ok so here in a month or two I'm going to drop out the rotating assembly and take it to the machine shop. Question now is do I girdle w/ studs or just studs?
 
Jonnylightening said:
Ok so here in a month or two I'm going to drop out the rotating assembly and take it to the machine shop. Question now is do I girdle w/ studs or just studs?
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what do you mean , i'm not understanding . all i know is it took quite a while to get that girdle to fit
 
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