Ever use a Borgeson power steering kit for a big block Dart conversion?

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Maine Dart

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72 Dart 383/727 conversion. Using TTI headers and a stock Mopar power steering set up. To put it plainly, we are having clearance issues with the steering set up. Borgeson seems to be the go to fix for this. Has any one ever used their kit? If so, please give me as much info as you can about the kit and tips/tricks/issues involved in the install process. this is my first Mopar and I'm an a amateur to say the least.
Thanks in advance
 
I have put 2 units in, a 71 Cuda with a gen2 hemi and a 74 Duster with a 318. In both cars I have stock manifolds although 318 has 340 manifolds and no clearance issues. I would give Pete a call because he is a Mopar Guy and advertises here.
 
No! The Borgeson box will not give you the solution..... It will get you closer. This is a set of 1 3/4" TTI's I flattened a tube on to get the clearance. It can be done but not OTTB.....

JW

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SLOPAR72 said:
No! The Borgeson box will not give you the solution..... It will get you closer. This is a set of 1 3/4" TTI's I flattened a tube on to get the clearance. It can be done but not OTTB.....

JW

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Just curious. When you ordered your headers were you able to specify the Borgeson steering box?

TTI are very knowledgeable when it comes to special fitment so they may have a solution already worked up.
 
I can't really make out from the photos, but it looks like those are biscuit mounts. There is latitude to shim the mounts and the box mounting before getting into modifying the headers. The box housing also has lots of material, so you have options to make room depending on your abilities. Also, all the fitting needs to be done at ride height since the is a considerable amount of flex in this area. The clearances change considerably when set on a chassis lift vs. on its weight.
 
BergmanAutoCraft said:
I can't really make out from the photos, but it looks like those are biscuit mounts. There is latitude to shim the mounts and the box mounting before getting into modifying the headers. The box housing also has lots of material, so you have options to make room depending on your abilities. Also, all the fitting needs to be done at ride height since the is a considerable amount of flex in this area. The clearances change considerably when set on a chassis lift vs. on its weight.
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No, we talked about my setup when I got the box from you. Your story changed. You agreed with me a tube or 2 would have to probably still need massaging. I knew the 1 3/4" would get me closer than the 2" set I bought from a Member who is supposed to be a messiah of A Body's. This is my setup including Torsion bars clearing, motor in the right position in the car. Once again, the tubes have to be modified.

I don't want another member to spend money on a box they don't need thinking it fixes a problem it won't. Now if someone wants to chime in with pictures and details I am all eyes and ears.... Because my car must be a total misaligned wreck if that's the case....

JW
 
Maine Dart said:
72 Dart 383/727 conversion. Using TTI headers and a stock Mopar power steering set up. To put it plainly, we are having clearance issues with the steering set up. Borgeson seems to be the go to fix for this. Has any one ever used their kit? If so, please give me as much info as you can about the kit and tips/tricks/issues involved in the install process. this is my first Mopar and I'm an a amateur to say the least.
Thanks in advance
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In my humble opinion, go with the TTI Shorty's . With the Borgeson box, you should have lots of clearance and there's not a great loss of performance vs long tubes if you are not racing the car. You will certainly love the convenience gain for a daily driver / cruiser when changing spark plugs etc..
 
SLOPAR72 said:
No, we talked about my setup when I got the box from you. Your story changed. You agreed with me a tube or 2 would have to probably still need massaging. I knew the 1 3/4" would get me closer than the 2" set I bought from a Member who is supposed to be a messiah of A Body's. This is my setup including Torsion bars clearing, motor in the right position in the car. Once again, the tubes have to be modified.

I don't want another member to spend money on a box they don't need thinking it fixes a problem it won't. Now if someone wants to chime in with pictures and details I am all eyes and ears.... Because my car must be a total misaligned wreck if that's the case....

JW
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Not the case at all. My point is there are some options to explore before destroying the headers. I merely mentioned the options for all interested parties to read. From the photo, it looks as if a shim under the mount opens up some clearance as the affected tube runs towards the motor. I also don't remember any subsequent conversation regarding options since you were having issues fitting. Those who know me, know I do the best I can via phone a photos to help however I can. I also know all the biscuit mounts on the market seem to be all different thicknesses and appear thinner than the ones our cars came with originally. I'm here to help.
 
AAndrews said:
Just curious. When you ordered your headers were you able to specify the Borgeson steering box?

TTI are very knowledgeable when it comes to special fitment so they may have a solution already worked up.
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When I got my 2" set said Member (Let's call him Mr. Mopar) had them and claimed PS no problem. Stupid me didn't research it. Lesson learned. I contacted TTI and they said even the 1 3/4 would not work with the PS box and they were unsure about the Borgeson box. Can't ask for no more than that IMO. So I seeked out a set of used TTI's (1 3/4") which had idle time in a car only and wa expecting to make a mod. That's when I had the conversation about the box and the ol' it should work with shims lol. I had zero expectations and the first mock up it was clear there was a problem. As so the story goes. Maybe TTI has changed the design in 2 years. Maybe the Borgeson box is different now. This was the summer of 2018.

I still have them and one day they will end up as a guitar stand I suppose lol.... My point to it is do your research on the topic. It comes up often here and people are misled. Sorry if that sounds brash or punchy but the truth hurts are the headers for these cars aren't cheap.....

JW
 
SLOPAR72 said:
When I got my 2" set said Member (Let's call him Mr. Mopar) had them and claimed PS no problem. Stupid me didn't research it. Lesson learned. I contacted TTI and they said even the 1 3/4 would not work with the PS box and they were unsure about the Borgeson box. Can't ask for no more than that IMO. So I seeked out a set of used TTI's (1 3/4") which had idle time in a car only and wa expecting to make a mod. That's when I had the conversation about the box and the ol' it should work with shims lol. I had zero expectations and the first mock up it was clear there was a problem. As so the story goes. Maybe TTI has changed the design in 2 years. Maybe the Borgeson box is different now. This was the summer of 2018.

I still have them and one day they will end up as a guitar stand I suppose lol.... My point to it is do your research on the topic. It comes up often here and people are misled. Sorry if that sounds brash or punchy but the truth hurts are the headers for these cars aren't cheap.....

JW
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Before the header mods, what things did you try to gain clearance?
 
BergmanAutoCraft said:
Before the header mods, what things did you try to gain clearance?
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Shims, talked to Schumacher (at that point Michael was extremely helpful and even offered to send me a hybrid mount to try.) Modified the slots in the Kmember, and also modified a Tranny mount to make a major engine move. In the end a smoke wrench and my press modified the header and in it went....

If I had to do it over again the set of Schumachers I got when they were rolling in the business is the set I would have stayed with. The box will certainly help with handling so it's all good however there are a bunch of misconceptions about full tube chassis headers in an A-body with PS.....

Ideally the thing to do is get a raw set and modify them before coating if you want full tubes....

JW
 
AAndrews said:
In my humble opinion, go with the TTI Shorty's . With the Borgeson box, you should have lots of clearance and there's not a great loss of performance vs long tubes if you are not racing the car. You will certainly love the convenience gain for a daily driver / cruiser when changing spark plugs etc..
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TTI shorties won’t work 383 or 400. They need the raised block to clear things including torsion bar pass side and manual steering box on drivers side. Expensive gamble on my part
 
Hey DartGame,

Did you order the correct part # ?

Here's TTI's full description for Shorty headers for A-Bodies with a 383 /400.

I sure hope its correct info as I'm planning on using them myself for a 68 Cuda droptop project.


Header #44025

1-3/4" SHORTY HEADERS

TTI44025_small.jpg


Click image to enlarge

FEATURES ...

Designed for: 383-400 B-engines & 440 RB-engines

Primary tube size: 1-3/4" O.D.

Collector size: 2-1/2" with 2-1/2" 3-bolt flange

Flanges: 3/8" thick, laser-cut, contoured for a leak free fit

Material: Constructed of 16 gauge mild steel tubing. Mandrel bent on sophisticated computer controlled bending machines for precise fit and uninterrupted exhaust flow. The mandrel bending process maintains a constant inside diameter of the tube for a smoother finish with no restriction of flow and no crimping of the tubes.

One piece design: One piece header tubes / No slip tubes

Under chassis design: Above the steering center link design offers maximum header to ground clearance

Shorty header design: 2-1/2" Header Adapter Pipes required to transition Exhaust systems to headers

Recommended for: Up to 475 horsepower

Header set includes: Header gaskets & header bolts

latforms:

67-76 A-BODY, 66-74 B-BODY and 70-74 E-BODY CHASSIS.

[Check your engine location: See FN39 for the factory dimensions]
 
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@AAndrews
I wish I had pictures of the install and might have the part number somewhere. I ended up selling them and used Shumachers. It was a 68 dart with six kmember. If I maybe used the thicker truck biscuit mounts I would of gained some more clearance. I would definitely call them and ask.
 
DARTGAME said:
@AAndrews
I wish I had pictures of the install and might have the part number somewhere. I ended up selling them and used Shumachers. It was a 68 dart with six kmember. If I maybe used the thicker truck biscuit mounts I would of gained some more clearance. I would definitely call them and ask.
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This is what members need to see. People who have actually tried scenarios such as this and needing to go in a different direction. Keeping Power steering with a Big block and using headers is a dicey combo. Maybe someone will pick up Schumacher's deal and start building them again. That's your OOTB solution I am afraid..

JW
 


This came up on Youtube this morning in a search. Go to the 7 minute spot unless you want to watch the whole thing. Anyhoo, they have power steering on the car and 1 3/4" TTI's. Now in fairness to my finding I was using a RB block (440) so this is different from my setup. I thought it was an interesting clip and maybe there is hope for you guys....

JW
 
The last 45 seconds or so of that video is what's up!!
 
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BergmanAutoCraft said:
Under 2" TTI tubes and you should be able to do it from the feedback I've gotten through the years.
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Pete, I've got a similar problem that I'm hoping you can help me with. I have a 65 Dart Gt convertible with a 273. I installed a Borgeson power steering box and TTI long tube headers. No problem with clearance there. But, when I try to install the universal joint coupling the piece that connects to the column hits one of the header tubes and I can't get it to angle up because of that. Any suggestions? Thank you!
 
Jesters65 said:
Pete, I've got a similar problem that I'm hoping you can help me with. I have a 65 Dart Gt convertible with a 273. I installed a Borgeson power steering box and TTI long tube headers. No problem with clearance there. But, when I try to install the universal joint coupling the piece that connects to the column hits one of the header tubes and I can't get it to angle up because of that. Any suggestions? Thank you!
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I’m not a fan of mutilating the column for the rubberized u joint. However, in certain situations, clearance is tight. Do you have any photos.
 
I'm trying to upload some photos. Don't know if they will help any. Very tight space. Hard to get an angle to take a picture
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