NICE! That's what I needed back in my airboatin days. LOLI just walk out the house door and then around the corner of the hangar..
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Non-ethanol vs 93
- Thread starter dartfreak75
- Start date
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33IMP
Well-Known Member
At my small local airport, its self serve and you need a credit card.
I never really tried for avgas in california, but when i first tried here, a guy came by and helped me figure out what i had to do. He told me to just plug in my license plate number for the planes tail number. Worked like a champ. I told him, "california wont let you get away with that." His response? "F#&k california!"
If you put av gas directly in your tank the airport could get in deep s#!t. You can take a container and tell them it is for your race car or gas equipment (anything that doesn't drive on the road).
I couldn't get my 10:1 340 to run on anything less than 92 octane without pinging. We don't have a source of high octane non-ethanol here so I use premium pump gas (with ethanol) and use a product call Carb Defender (from Jegs) to bind the ethanol to protect the carbs (3 different cars). I was having problems up until then and had it recommended by Herb McCandless at one of his seminars at Carlisle maybe 8 years ago - no problems since.
I couldn't get my 10:1 340 to run on anything less than 92 octane without pinging. We don't have a source of high octane non-ethanol here so I use premium pump gas (with ethanol) and use a product call Carb Defender (from Jegs) to bind the ethanol to protect the carbs (3 different cars). I was having problems up until then and had it recommended by Herb McCandless at one of his seminars at Carlisle maybe 8 years ago - no problems since.
dartfreak75
Restore it, Dont part it!
Thanks bud thats good to know I appreciate it!
Most won't care. The airport manager here certainly doesn't, but of course I sleep with her every night ! 
I hope never to spend a dollar in California I left Illinois because it's not far behind. Then we had a economic dump in 2008 in about the third of Illinois moved over here to Indiana and they're going to screw us up with the crooks they like to vote four. They should stay at home and fix their mess they made over there. Government employee pensions primarily I'll stay off of politics thank you.
I haven't tried the aviation gas it was just something that was on my mind I probably heard it somewhere else. But I was going to check into it when the time was right for me I just wanted to throw my two cents in. Lack of cents don't know
man, that's just an unfair advantage!
33IMP
Well-Known Member
Agree. I drive up to the avgas pump with a couple old racing gas five gallon cans. (Diesel pickup, they know its not going in that!)
were the problems you were having ethanol related? The pinging? Or was there a different problem related to the ethanol?
Two problems with separate but related causes.
The ethanol issue goes like this: ethanol attracts and binds with water (hydrophyllic). The gas left in your fuel bowls (which in my case can sit for a month or two at a time) evaporates because the fuel bowl is vented. The Gasoline evaporates first because it is more volatile than ethanol, and when the factories all went to EFI and a sealed fuel system, the oil companies took the anti- evaporation fuel stabilizers out of the mix. This leaves ethanol in there last with the water that is attached to it. The result is corrosion and deposits in the bowl and when the car starts up it is in every orifice that the fuel bowl feeds (jets, metering rods, etc). What the Carb Defender does is chemically fills the receptors in the ethanol to keep it from holding the water. I'm not a chemist. This is the way Herb McCandless explained it at the seminar (he's not a chemist either). What I know is that my carbs cleaned out and ran smoother over a couple months, after a few years of getting worse and worse.
The ping came from insufficient octane rating in the non-ethanol 87 octane gas I tried to avoid the ethanol.
So now my gas (premium with ethanol) is up to snuff from any good gas station as far as octane goes, and the Carb Defender deals with the potential bad consequences in a carbed motor on ethanol.
The ethanol issue goes like this: ethanol attracts and binds with water (hydrophyllic). The gas left in your fuel bowls (which in my case can sit for a month or two at a time) evaporates because the fuel bowl is vented. The Gasoline evaporates first because it is more volatile than ethanol, and when the factories all went to EFI and a sealed fuel system, the oil companies took the anti- evaporation fuel stabilizers out of the mix. This leaves ethanol in there last with the water that is attached to it. The result is corrosion and deposits in the bowl and when the car starts up it is in every orifice that the fuel bowl feeds (jets, metering rods, etc). What the Carb Defender does is chemically fills the receptors in the ethanol to keep it from holding the water. I'm not a chemist. This is the way Herb McCandless explained it at the seminar (he's not a chemist either). What I know is that my carbs cleaned out and ran smoother over a couple months, after a few years of getting worse and worse.
The ping came from insufficient octane rating in the non-ethanol 87 octane gas I tried to avoid the ethanol.
So now my gas (premium with ethanol) is up to snuff from any good gas station as far as octane goes, and the Carb Defender deals with the potential bad consequences in a carbed motor on ethanol.
dartfreak75
Restore it, Dont part it!
That's it - I put half a bottle in the tank and then 10-13 gallons of premium gas with 10% ethanol.
My 340 has factory 10.5 to 1 style pistons (.040 over but with permatex blue gaskets that are thicker than stock) that we figured for 10 to 1 when it was built 18 years ago. I've put 20,000 miles on it in its current configuration with the crossram in the last 12 years.
My 340 has factory 10.5 to 1 style pistons (.040 over but with permatex blue gaskets that are thicker than stock) that we figured for 10 to 1 when it was built 18 years ago. I've put 20,000 miles on it in its current configuration with the crossram in the last 12 years.
dartfreak75
Restore it, Dont part it!
Thanks bud im gonna have to pick some of that up. That's the same compression I have so that makes me feel good about running premium.
I don't know what kind of distributor you are using, but I had a couple bad experiences with Mopar Performance distributors with too much advance (mechanical plus vacuum). This time I sent my intended distributor to HalifaxHops and he recurved it properly to 36 or so degrees max. If not corrected, this can result in pinging due to too much advance (one we checked was up to 58 degrees!).
First and foremost go with the octane sufficient to prevent detonation.
If the engine is just being run out of gear, that's not going to be an issue.
Then after determining your engine's needs, if 0 E fuel is an option, then test it out.
Remember that there's different ways for a fuel to achieve an octane rating. All gasoline is a blend of hydrocarbons and there's all sorts of ways to tinker with the blend. The octane on the pump in the USA is a the Anti-Knock Index (AKI) which is simply the average of the Motor Octane and the Research Octane test results.
All of those different hydrocarbons have different evaporation rates. So its not like ethanol is the only component which evaporates easily. Every winter the fuel companies adjust the fuel mixture to make it easy for cars to start in cold weather and generally they don't use eth for that.
If the car is going to sit a while (weeks into months) then putting a high quality storage fuel into the lines and carb is a great idea. What I try to do is run the tank down, then fill with 4 - 5 gallons of storage fuel and run that long enough to get in the bowls. Depending on where the car is parked I might top off with pump fuel to reduce condensation. But in general I avoid having a full tank of winter fuel as Spring approaches. Had enough bad experiences with running winter fuel with its high Reid Vapor Pressure on hot days. Its not as bad with a closed evap system equiped vehicle but its something to be avoided. I've gone so far as to drain off fuel from the tank.
Final note: Your pump fuel is different that what I get around here. See the chart I reposted here
Comprehensive Test Regular vs Premium
If the engine is just being run out of gear, that's not going to be an issue.
Then after determining your engine's needs, if 0 E fuel is an option, then test it out.
Remember that there's different ways for a fuel to achieve an octane rating. All gasoline is a blend of hydrocarbons and there's all sorts of ways to tinker with the blend. The octane on the pump in the USA is a the Anti-Knock Index (AKI) which is simply the average of the Motor Octane and the Research Octane test results.
All of those different hydrocarbons have different evaporation rates. So its not like ethanol is the only component which evaporates easily. Every winter the fuel companies adjust the fuel mixture to make it easy for cars to start in cold weather and generally they don't use eth for that.
If the car is going to sit a while (weeks into months) then putting a high quality storage fuel into the lines and carb is a great idea. What I try to do is run the tank down, then fill with 4 - 5 gallons of storage fuel and run that long enough to get in the bowls. Depending on where the car is parked I might top off with pump fuel to reduce condensation. But in general I avoid having a full tank of winter fuel as Spring approaches. Had enough bad experiences with running winter fuel with its high Reid Vapor Pressure on hot days. Its not as bad with a closed evap system equiped vehicle but its something to be avoided. I've gone so far as to drain off fuel from the tank.
Final note: Your pump fuel is different that what I get around here. See the chart I reposted here
Comprehensive Test Regular vs Premium
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