How many of you guys are racing with lithium batteries?I have been thinking of relocating the battery in my bracket race Dakota to the back but with these lite lithium batteries not sure it's worth the effort. I'm also concerned with the possibility of fires with these.
Lithium batteries
- Thread starter MHEAD
- Start date
-
I posted somewhere here about an EarthX brand lithium battery I bought to replace a group 24 lead battery. Weighed about 5lbs, Saved about 35 lbs. seemed to be working great on street and at the strip. Fast fire up like never seen before. This past weekend as I was moving up in the staging lanes starting and cutting the engine I went to start up and nothing. Absolutely dead. I’ve yet to analyze the cause, but I think I f-d up my load calculations and alternator amps I needed, causing an overcharge situation. The fault indicator on these batteries will flash for various periods of time and then you can decipher what the problem is. Hopefully I didn’t F up my battery as it wasn’t cheap! You want the alternator at less than 50% iirc with all loads operating, to have alt amp reserve. Otherwise, I wouldn’t worry about exploding or fires. Do some research and ignore the comparisons to wheelchair, hand tools etc lithium batteries which is where the concern eminates from. Just do a better job figuring loads and what alternator and size lithium battery you need.
Last edited:
I have had Lithium battery's in sport bikes and yes charging systems are a problem, I have destroyed 2 battery's before I figured out the problem but then sold the bike with the new bigger battery so not sure if it was the fix. After seeing phone battery's blow up and the damage they do just think of a car battery blowing up. I know that if they go below 9 volts they turn to junk and if you over charge them they turn to junk. I think I will wait till the technology gets better before I put one in another vehicle.
Last edited:
I do know many lithium’s used in auto applications don’t have protection circuitry like the EarthX does which was the main reason I chose it. Any faults of over or under charging and it shuts down. My issue is due to the loads, the alternator I have, and battery size I selected. Either user error or charging system issue, not the battery. Will be testing all this weekend to sort things out.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
With that much weight savings I’m thinking about switching. Then I can use a series/parallel switch and run the starter with 24 volts. They start much better on 24v and the starters last longer.
In the Harley Davidson's with High compression motors they say to hit the starter for 1 sec then let it set for a few then hit the starter again for 1 sec and let it set a few this gets the battery warmed up and on the third time crank away, I watched one video of a guy cranking a 125 cu in Harley for 2 min and it wasn't slowing down. I know they got power the jigawatt motorcycle battery has 900 cca.
weedburner
Well-Known Member
I used to have a double engine dirt late model, basically two Mazda rotary engines bolted together with one starter. 12v would not spin it over fast enough, 24v was great until it melted the solder in the brush connections. 18v ended up a workable compromise that didn't eat starters.
Grant
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
LOL...I killed a starter like that. I was just not paying attention and I had the magneto timed in the backside and cranked on it a bit too long.
Usually it started quick enough that it wouldn’t make a bunch of heat.
I was just thinking buy the time I add the weight of the cables and everything else to the back it's probably not worth the effort.I use a group 34 that if I remember right is about 46lb.I also use a gm style 100a alternator that's probably overkill.
I'll definitely need to do some research.Thanks for the info guys.
T
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Research these batteries well are they may be responsible for some fires that are happening lately.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I know little about automotive applicaitons for lithium, except this:
(We sell and use lithium 24V and used to use 48V in our power wheelchairs)
These are LiFePO4 nominal 24V system, 100AH
So far as I know ALL high power lithium batteries MUST have some sort of electronics management package
You can not tell charge level by measuring voltage, as you do with a lead based battery, The voltage curve is quite flat until the battery is nearly depleted, giving you a "false sense" of charge level
The charger MUST BE specifically engineered for lithium, and they will only charge "so fast."
(We sell and use lithium 24V and used to use 48V in our power wheelchairs)
These are LiFePO4 nominal 24V system, 100AH
So far as I know ALL high power lithium batteries MUST have some sort of electronics management package
You can not tell charge level by measuring voltage, as you do with a lead based battery, The voltage curve is quite flat until the battery is nearly depleted, giving you a "false sense" of charge level
The charger MUST BE specifically engineered for lithium, and they will only charge "so fast."
sst3193
Well-Known Member
Car batteries made with lithium based cells are prone to flipping polarity, if discharged too far. Usually they swell and break open before they catch fire. Charging a battery, with cells that has reversed, does very bad things.
I believe it is law that, some type of warning or shutdown be included.
I believe it is law that, some type of warning or shutdown be included.
pishta
I know I'm right....
The Formula E grand prix style electric cars sound like huge slot cars whizzing by. Very strange to see first hand. you can be on the wall with a camera (I get photo passes) and not even know they are coming as you can only see about 100m down the track because of the fencing. you only hear the transmissions and the tires scrubbing. The jump starter packs you can buy are nothing more than 1 or 2 AGM batteries (like fire panel back up/E-bike batteries) in parallel, they weigh about 5 lbs a piece. if you car has a good tune, and the choke works, it should start up in about 1-3 seconds and then your batteries are back to charging.
I will just stick to over 100 year old lead acid technology. Cheap and reliable.
There would be no need to relocate the batttery if you go with a lithium, unless you were wanting less engine bay clutter. You’d just be removing about 40lbs from the front of the car.
Sure is a lot of confusion, misconceptions and what really appears to be fear mongering about these batteries being regurgitated that’s obvious. The only reason I can see for considering one is for losing weight if you’re drag racing. And the weight loss is sizable. Daily driver, commuter, resto guys are not going to be bothering with them. As to charging, what type chargers you can or can not use there’s just more confusion and misconceptions being floated. If one has a brain and actually reads user manuals and the general information provided by the manufacturer of a particular battery you then will know the facts for each specific battery! If you’re the type that just slaps something on and runs with it expecting to do everything else the way you’ve only ever known well then you get what you get. Read the manual and do as it instructs. Here’s a manual, pages 32-35 clearly state all the facts related to charging for their batteries !https://earthxbatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/ETX_Manual_111017_Y-1.pdf
Last edited:
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Maybe you should take your own advice
The specs list their battery as only 10AH, CCA at a paltry 140, and MAXIMUM CHARGE RATE at only 15A and recommended charger only 5A
That thing is a toy. It is not going start much of anything in cold weather.
??? Take my own advice? ??? Not sure which battery you are referring to. Certainly not the one I’m running. All I’m saying is to research, read the manual and do as it instructs. Hard to go wrong.
Last edited:
nevjr
Well-Known Member
I would probably prefer a small motorcycle battery in the trunk and a couple big super caps in the engine compartment for starting. capacitors are very lightweight and the battery cables only need to handle charging current.
-
