What is your 451 stroker combo?

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MoparMcK

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Hey all, I am finally going to pull the trigger a have a new mill built for my Demon. I am going with a 400 base 451 stroker. This is a street/strip 4 speed, manual steering and brake, 8 3/4 3.91 gears car. I like rowdy but obviously somewhat friendly. I know these and any engine can be built mild to wild very easily. I have been talking with the engine builder and getting a feel for his thoughts. In the meantime how bout some chit chat and you tell me about your combos. Engine, trans, gears, suspension, car weight, ET 1/8 and/or 1/4 mile, and so.

Lets have some fun and get the blood flowing. :steering::thankyou:
 
The heads are the most important part. If you want to make good power then start with a set of Trick Flow 240 heads.
 
The heads are the most important part. If you want to make good power then start with a set of Trick Flow 240 heads.


Unfortunately to start I will be using a set of Stealth heads I already have. Unless I fall into some cash somewhere. LOL.
 
Heads and cam are going to make are break your goal, I'm running eddy heads mild port work, solid roller Bullet cam 243,245@50 586lift 115LSA with 10# of boost. And if you want to have fun with the 4 speed throw some 4.10's are 4.30's in that thing LOL!
 
$600 Stimulus payment coming next week!!!
If it gets increased to $2000 THEN you can get the TF240's :p

I have the exact same combo that you describe, except my A-body is a '72 Swinger. Also added Caltracs (copies, anyway) to help stick the 295/50R15 street tires. And a small nitrous plate system for extra fun.
It's a bit overcammed, .652 (272@.050) but really a blast to drive on the street even with the iron heads that are choking it. Once I put on the PRH-tweaked Speedmasters (293.5 cfm@.650) it will be even more entertaining.
:steering:
 
What are your opinions for an intake to run? Singe or Dual plane?
Depends on the application & engine build.
Cam size is a big player as well on how it is backed up with a torque converter if applicable, gear ratio and tire size for the drivetrain. The car itself should be light for a single plane.

Here is my blurry dividing line between single and dual plane intake usage. Camshaft duration @050 @ 250*, car weight, 3K w/driver ready to rock, low 11 second range in the 1/4 mile.

If your cam is at the 250* @050, less than 3200 w/a big block looking to to do better than a low 11, then you’ll probably want the single plane.


If your cam is below the 250* @050, more than 3200 w/a big block NOT looking to to do better than a low 11, then you’ll probably want the dual plane.

Being that you have 3.91 gears and not interested in running the track a lot, a dual plane seems to be more fitting. I would suggest a RPM intake. It will offer better low and mid range torque while retaining a good top end.

The cam duration should fit the driving rpm range in cruise. An example would be something like...
65 @ 3000 rpm’s is the cruise speed and rpm.
Have a cam that operates with a minimum starting point below the cruise.
Check the cam grinders min. rpm range the cam likes to operate in. For a mild Hyd cam, this can be in the 240*@050 range. A more aggressive solid cam can change the duration @050 by 4*’s or more. But it becomes much more of a rough idle rowdy cam.

For the above example, 65@3K, a cam that works in the 2500 - 6K range would be fine. Just as an example.

Would also try to get in as much lift as possible to take advantage of the heads flow capability.
 
What are your opinions for an intake to run? Singe or Dual plane?
If mostly street, a good dual plane like a Performer RPM is hard to beat. If you want every last top end hp and you have enough cam, single plane (but expect less low-end torque, possibly significantly less).
Of course, if you don't mind carbs sticking through the hood, a tunnel ram does it all!
Intake Manifold Engine & RPM Range Test - Mopar Muscle Magazine
Part 1 of Hot Rod's Mopar Intake Manifold Shootout
Part 2 of Hot Rod's Mopar Intake Manifold Shootout
 
Depends on the application & engine build.
Cam size is a big player as well on how it is backed up with a torque converter if applicable, gear ratio and tire size for the drivetrain. The car itself should be light for a single plane.

Here is my blurry dividing line between single and dual plane intake usage. Camshaft duration @050 @ 250*, car weight, 3K w/driver ready to rock, low 11 second range in the 1/4 mile.

If your cam is at the 250* @050, less than 3200 w/a big block looking to to do better than a low 11, then you’ll probably want the single plane.


If your cam is below the 250* @050, more than 3200 w/a big block NOT looking to to do better than a low 11, then you’ll probably want the dual plane.

Being that you have 3.91 gears and not interested in running the track a lot, a dual plane seems to be more fitting. I would suggest a RPM intake. It will offer better low and mid range torque while retaining a good top end.

The cam duration should fit the driving rpm range in cruise. An example would be something like...
65 @ 3000 rpm’s is the cruise speed and rpm.
Have a cam that operates with a minimum starting point below the cruise.
Check the cam grinders min. rpm range the cam likes to operate in. For a mild Hyd cam, this can be in the 240*@050 range. A more aggressive solid cam can change the duration @050 by 4*’s or more. But it becomes much more of a rough idle rowdy cam.

For the above example, 65@3K, a cam that works in the 2500 - 6K range would be fine. Just as an example.

Would also try to get in as much lift as possible to take advantage of the heads flow capability.
If mostly street, a good dual plane like a Performer RPM is hard to beat. If you want every last top end hp and you have enough cam, single plane (but expect less low-end torque, possibly significantly less).
Of course, if you don't mind carbs sticking through the hood, a tunnel ram does it all!
Intake Manifold Engine & RPM Range Test - Mopar Muscle Magazine
Part 1 of Hot Rod's Mopar Intake Manifold Shootout
Part 2 of Hot Rod's Mopar Intake Manifold Shootout


Dual plane is my thought for the street use purpose. Not to mention I don't plan on running high RPM aka over 6k. The builder prefers me to find an old Torker intake. We are planning on a custom grind cam. I don't have much experience. So all I have ran are hydraulic flat tappets. I am leaning more to a solid cam this time. Also my car is 3400# with me in it. Currently has a tired 440 with stealths and a Mopar dual plane.
 
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The heads are the most important part. If you want to make good power then start with a set of Trick Flow 240 heads.
Quick question along those lines... I may be helping someone out on finishing up a 505 RB short block. Track mostly but with limited street driving. It has Mahle pistons, 4-1/4 crank, and 7.1 inch rods and was set to run 11:1 with 72cc chambers and a .040 head gasket. Camshaft is a Comp solid roller .660 lift 252/263@ .050 on a 108. It’s already installed in the complete assembly so it will probably not get changed. What do you like? TFS 240, 270 (what I'm leaning toward), or something else? Vehicle weight is probably going to be 3600 plus. ‘89 D-150, built 727 with Turbo Action “J” converter, Four link, gears 4.10-4.88 & 33 inch tire. No fiberglass yet but plenty of lightening.
 
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You didn't say if you were going to run exhaust manifolds or headers... I've read that the .528 is a good choice for manifolds, too.

Are you going to have some porting done to the Stealths?
 
You didn't say if you were going to run exhaust manifolds or headers... I've read that the .528 is a good choice for manifolds, too.

Are you going to have some porting done to the Stealths?


For now I will be running my 1 3/4" TTI headers. Unless I run into a nice used set prior to install. I don't think I am going to bother porting the stealths. Eventually I plan to upgrade to Trick Flows. Right now it is use what I have to get next spring rolling. Main reason for the build is my 440 is tired. Blow bye like no other on the passenger side. When It is warm outside and car it up to temp. Oil pressure fades bad. Which it never use to do. It was a cheap $500 stock short block I picked 8 years ago and slapped together for my 76 Power Wagon. Then found its way into my Demon 5 years ago. I just want a healthy short block put together and use what I have the best I can. Then I can upgrade over time but who knows that may change as well. I haven't even started the build yet.
 
For now I will be running my 1 3/4" TTI headers. Unless I run into a nice used set prior to install. I don't think I am going to bother porting the stealths. Eventually I plan to upgrade to Trick Flows. Right now it is use what I have to get next spring rolling. Main reason for the build is my 440 is tired. Blow bye like no other on the passenger side. When It is warm outside and car it up to temp. Oil pressure fades bad. Which it never use to do. It was a cheap $500 stock short block I picked 8 years ago and slapped together for my 76 Power Wagon. Then found its way into my Demon 5 years ago. I just want a healthy short block put together and use what I have the best I can. Then I can upgrade over time but who knows that may change as well. I haven't even started the build yet.
What parts do you have for this 451? If you have to buy a crank you might as well go with more stroke same price. You will need another dist for a B engine. Intakes are not as plentiful as the Rb engine. Send the stealth heads to repeatable shop for some minor porting. If you rebuild your 440 with flat top pistons zero deck .039 head gaskets the right cam it should make for a nice pump gas driver. Same cost. I just pieced together a 511 RB shortblock Eagle crank, eagle rods, Icon pistons, main studs, line bore, .055 over, balancing and assembly $4600. That'll give you an idea of cost for just a short block without cam.
 
What parts do you have for this 451? If you have to buy a crank you might as well go with more stroke same price. You will need another dist for a B engine. Intakes are not as plentiful as the Rb engine. Send the stealth heads to repeatable shop for some minor porting. If you rebuild your 440 with flat top pistons zero deck .039 head gaskets the right cam it should make for a nice pump gas driver. Same cost. I just pieced together a 511 RB shortblock Eagle crank, eagle rods, Icon pistons, main studs, line bore, .055 over, balancing and assembly $4600. That'll give you an idea of cost for just a short block without cam.

I am only short the intake now. I am switching to the 400 for the added space. So everyone says the fit better in an Abody. The 440 will get a freshening and dropped into my 63 Plymouth Fury I recently found for $650 locally.
 
I am only short the intake now. I am switching to the 400 for the added space. So everyone says the fit better in an Abody. The 440 will get a freshening and dropped into my 63 Plymouth Fury I recently found for $650 locally.
What crank and rods are you using? I thought about a low deck myself but I have 3 intakes and everything for an RB. A friend also donated a block. TTI headers are quite tight on mine but they fit perfectly for 25 yr old headers. I'm also running Indy EZ heads makes for getting at the plugs easier.
 
Unfortunately to start I will be using a set of Stealth heads I already have. Unless I fall into some cash somewhere. LOL.

Okay, the Stealth heads will limit the power that is for sure. So if you're using Stealth heads then maybe shoot for 450 to 500 hp on the dyno. Probably use a Performer RPM (if it fits under your hood) and something small like the Mopar .528 cam. I wouldn't buy the actual Mopar cam anymore since I think they charge a ton of money and the quality is probably sketchy at best but buy something in that neighborhood. Here is an article I did 20+ years ago: Moparts on the Web - Main Index
 
I like the Purple cams. But agree with AndyF. To much money these days. IMO, that has a good duration @050 for the goal at hand. I myself would like to see more lift. Something that gets the valve to allow the head to work best with it’s high flow capacity. It’s worth a few HP.
 
Ok , here is my current 451 build ! 1976 400 block
4.380 bore
3.750 stroke
6.76 Rod
10.95 compression
Trick Flow 240 heads ootb
Trick Flow Track Heat intake manifold
Bullet Cam 254/258@50 .662/.660 LSA 108 installed 106
Morel solid roller lifters
727 with trans brake 5500 converter 3.73 Dana 60 super stock springs
1972 Dart Swinger
 
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