Head and cam selection help for 440

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I will be needing some adjustable rockers for this solid cam, can you recommend some that are indeed decent but not wildly expensive? I know everyone likes the HS roller tips but not looking to spend $1000 on them alone.. Also, this will be my first solid cam so will have to learn the adjustment procedure..
 
I wish I'd seen this earlier, I have a 440 that we built in the 80s with 452 heads that makes 524hp and 545tq. It has an old purple shaft I believe it's the 5.57 lift mechanical, the heads are very well prepared with 2.14 and 1.81 valves pocket ported with 80 cc chambers for 9.5 cr..
I will repeat this was first built in 87 - 88 strait out of the old mopar engine book.
Just the cost of the valves retainers and keepers along with the springs never mind the hours of grinding is enough to make a set of new heads very attractive.
You don't say if your pistons are forged or not but if not your limited on RPM.
If I was building this or any other 440 today I would use the Trick Flow heads because I have never heard of having to spend money to fix a new set like all the others.
 
TF240's flow >
.100" 72 58
.200" 154 130
.300" 230 186
.400" 282 222
.500" 310 243
.600" 326 253
.700" 334 262
Tests conducted at 28" of water (pressure).
Bore size: 4.350"; exhaust with 2" pipe.
Your 9.5:1 with 78cc TF heads will as said increase your CR to around 10.5:1 perhaps a bit less, TF made 620hp with their .600" hyd.roller with mid 240's@.050 duration and@10.5:1cr with their track heat intake and a 950 carb. For 550hp you could use an sft cam with .550" + and 250@.050 as prh said (gives you 318cfm flow) and perhaps a smaller 850 carb even and reach your goal +... comp pro magnum r/rockers are cheaper and may work rather than HS or the Mancini HS made rockers but the rockers for those heads are slightly different, perhaps a call B3 racing will confirm. But all this isn't cheap....what true 550hp p/gas 440 is cheap, my 9.5:1 440sp with 2355 pistons+approx 260cfm@600" 906 heads and an 850DP was cheap but needed a .650" sft cam to get to around 530hp but it was race only with that cam.
 
Carnut68 said:
I was looking at the Summit website and the Trick Flow heads are out of stock. Since Summit owns Trick Flow I would bet Hughes can't get those heads right now either.
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You might have along wait. I still think the edelbrock E streets are a good deal. 1120 bucks for a pair.
 
Carnut68 said:
You might have along wait. I still think the edelbrock E streets are a good deal. 1120 bucks for a pair.
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yes but they dont do as well as the trickflows so i would have to have too crazy of a cam to get what im looking for with them. Im wont be buying them quite yet as im just getting a plan together for the future.
 
mopower440 said:
yes but they dont do as well as the trickflows so i would have to have too crazy of a cam to get what im looking for with them. Im wont be buying them quite yet as im just getting a plan together for the future.
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I understand your point. You also said you limited on funds. From your 1st post I didn't think you were trying to build a race type engine. Here's an example of the 446 that was in my car whenever I bought it. It had sealedpower 2266F pistons .074 in the hole, 509 purple shaft, 906 heads shade tree porting 91cc. Steel shim head gaskets. Team G intake. Lucky if it had 9 to 1 comp. It went 11.91 @111. Nothing optimal about that build. On paper it shows around 430 hp. So I bought some pistons [Ross domes ] found a set of fully ported 906 heads put a purple shaft sft .557 in it.Same junk intake. It went 11.41@117. On paper it shows 452 hp. I changed cam to the .590 purple shaft and went with torkerII intake 11.27 @119. That shows 469 hp. Scientific no. Just some backyard experimenting. My current configuration is same intake, shortblock w/ ross pistons .590 cam and Indy EZ head standard port basic mild prep by PRH. Best to date 10.82 @125. On paper that only shows 523 hp. Also may note the ported 906 heads cracked and ruined 3 rod bearings. Some info from my limited experience.
 
Carnut68 said:
I understand your point. You also said you limited on funds. From your 1st post I didn't think you were trying to build a race type engine. Here's an example of the 446 that was in my car whenever I bought it. It had sealedpower 2266F pistons .074 in the hole, 509 purple shaft, 906 heads shade tree porting 91cc. Steel shim head gaskets. Team G intake. Lucky if it had 9 to 1 comp. It went 11.91 @111. Nothing optimal about that build. On paper it shows around 430 hp. So I bought some pistons [Ross domes ] found a set of fully ported 906 heads put a purple shaft sft .557 in it.Same junk intake. It went 11.41@117. On paper it shows 452 hp. I changed cam to the .590 purple shaft and went with torkerII intake 11.27 @119. That shows 469 hp. Scientific no. Just some backyard experimenting. My current configuration is same intake, shortblock w/ ross pistons .590 cam and Indy EZ head standard port basic mild prep by PRH. Best to date 10.82 @125. On paper that only shows 523 hp. Also may note the ported 906 heads cracked and ruined 3 rod bearings. Some info from my limited experience.
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Some other things to consider are before I started upping the hp I invested in a good driveshaft 1350 u joints good trans and pinion yoke. Better fuel system. Sub frame connectors. Luckily the car had been converted to disk brakes on the front and big bolt pattern.
 
Carnut68 said:
I understand your point. You also said you limited on funds. From your 1st post I didn't think you were trying to build a race type engine. Here's an example of the 446 that was in my car whenever I bought it. It had sealedpower 2266F pistons .074 in the hole, 509 purple shaft, 906 heads shade tree porting 91cc. Steel shim head gaskets. Team G intake. Lucky if it had 9 to 1 comp. It went 11.91 @111. Nothing optimal about that build. On paper it shows around 430 hp. So I bought some pistons [Ross domes ] found a set of fully ported 906 heads put a purple shaft sft .557 in it.Same junk intake. It went 11.41@117. On paper it shows 452 hp. I changed cam to the .590 purple shaft and went with torkerII intake 11.27 @119. That shows 469 hp. Scientific no. Just some backyard experimenting. My current configuration is same intake, shortblock w/ ross pistons .590 cam and Indy EZ head standard port basic mild prep by PRH. Best to date 10.82 @125. On paper that only shows 523 hp. Also may note the ported 906 heads cracked and ruined 3 rod bearings. Some info from my limited experience.
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those are some nice numbers there! what kind of compression were you at with the ross pistons?
 
Carnut68 said:
I understand your point. You also said you limited on funds. From your 1st post I didn't think you were trying to build a race type engine. Here's an example of the 446 that was in my car whenever I bought it. It had sealedpower 2266F pistons .074 in the hole, 509 purple shaft, 906 heads shade tree porting 91cc. Steel shim head gaskets. Team G intake. Lucky if it had 9 to 1 comp. It went 11.91 @111. Nothing optimal about that build. On paper it shows around 430 hp. So I bought some pistons [Ross domes ] found a set of fully ported 906 heads put a purple shaft sft .557 in it.Same junk intake. It went 11.41@117. On paper it shows 452 hp. I changed cam to the .590 purple shaft and went with torkerII intake 11.27 @119. That shows 469 hp. Scientific no. Just some backyard experimenting. My current configuration is same intake, shortblock w/ ross pistons .590 cam and Indy EZ head standard port basic mild prep by PRH. Best to date 10.82 @125. On paper that only shows 523 hp. Also may note the ported 906 heads cracked and ruined 3 rod bearings. Some info from my limited experience.
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wonder how close i could get to the 550 mark using the E-streets and still using the cam that Dwayne suggested? PRH? what do you think
 
Before I got the ported bv 906's I ran a completely stock 440-6pk motor 9.5>9.7:1, with that Team G and an 850DP f/wells, 4.88's 14x32's 4800 stall and that big .650 sft cam and went a best of 11.23@118+@33000lbs = 459fwhp....with the good heads that went to 10.7@125, 525+ just for reference.

E-streets prob only flow 265cfm@.550" less lash/deflection around 520-ish" so 250cfm?, PRH would have more info on that perhaps...can't find flow no's for them, so I'd say nowhere near 550@9.5:1.
I can tell you what it took to make 595hp with my mates 440, 12.7:1, MCH ported 320cfm Eddy rpm heads, .590 sft purple, victor intake, 2" hdrs 1050 Dominator, 4.56/13x31's/5000stall, 10.1's@131+@3150lbs.
 
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The TeamG 4500 actually worked pretty well.
I think I’ve only tried the 4150 TG once or twice....... I seem to recall some odd things going on with the power curve.
 
mopower440 said:
wonder how close i could get to the 550 mark using the E-streets and still using the cam that Dwayne suggested? PRH? what do you think
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It will make less.
How much less? I don’t have that answer for you.

If your budget doesn’t include TF heads, then just use what you can afford.
But to think the power between ootb E streets and ootb TF’s will be the “same”, is just kidding yourself.

You said you wanted 550hp.
The TF heads and that Lunati cam would do it.
Would ootb E streets do it?
Might be close....... but if I told a customer I was building them a 550hp motor, and I put it on the dyno and it made 525-530....... that would be a “fail”.
It’s still a nice motor, and driving the car you may not ever know the difference........ nonetheless the target goal was not reached.
Whereas if it had the TF heads and missed the HP mark by 10hp...... making 560hp....... everyone is all smiles then.
 
PRH said:
It will make less.
How much less? I don’t have that answer for you.

If your budget doesn’t include TF heads, then just use what you can afford.
But to think the power between ootb E streets and ootb TF’s will be the “same”, is just kidding yourself.

You said you wanted 550hp.
The TF heads and that Lunati cam would do it.
Would ootb E streets do it?
Might be close....... but if I told a customer I was building them a 550hp motor, and I put it on the dyno and it made 525-530....... that would be a “fail”.
It’s still a nice motor, and driving the car you may not ever know the difference........ nonetheless the target goal was not reached.
Whereas if it had the TF heads and missed the HP mark by 10hp...... making 560hp....... everyone is all smiles then.
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No, i know you said the E-street wouldnt do it like the trick flow, was just wondering if you knew how close it would be thats all.
 
mopower440 said:
No, i know you said the E-street wouldnt do it like the trick flow, was just wondering if you knew how close it would be thats all.
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I was just suggesting some other options because you stated you have a limited budget { like most of us]. I believe the E streets are virtually the same head as the RPM other than the seats are different. Would you be satisfied with 500 hp? That would be a handful on the street.
 
Of course....... if you don’t dyno it...... it can be whatever hp you want to tell people it is ;)
 
same head as the RPM other than the seats are different.
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A couple of years ago they stopped using the powdered metal seats in the E streets.
They now use the same ductile iron seats as the RPM heads.
 
Carnut68 said:
I was just suggesting some other options because you stated you have a limited budget { like most of us]. I believe the E streets are virtually the same head as the RPM other than the seats are different. Would you be satisfied with 500 hp? That would be a handful on the street.
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Well, i dont know..lol..i just dont want to be embarrassed by too many other 'hot' cars in the area..Got to keep the mopar name respected!
 
I’ll throw this out there.......

Mopar 452 heads are about as easy as it gets to do some mild porting to them and end up with worthwhile gains.

If there are any decent head shops within 2-3hrs of you(so you don’t have to ship them) who are known as a place to have some porting done......... if you’re looking for something budget friendly, it probably wouldn’t get any cheaper than doing some mild porting to your existing heads....... IF ......... they don’t need a bunch of other work along with the porting.
No, with mild porting they won’t flow like Ede heads...... and it’s unlikely you’ll see 550hp........ but you’ll also have a bunch of $$$ left in your wallet.
 
mopower440 said:
Back about 17 years ago i built this 440 for my dart. didnt have a lot of money to do it at the time but i started with a low compression 1975 440 out of a new yorker. I wanted to raise the compression some so i found a set of used .030 over sealed power 2355 6 pack pistons. So i took the block and pistons to the machine shop and had the block bored and the pistons pressed onto my LY rods and the rest of the block work done. Had the bone stock 452 heads gone through and had the correct valve springs installed for the MP 284/484 cam i used. SO, i have the .030 over 440 with 9.5:1 compression with the stock unported 452 heads and the 284/484 cam installed 4 degrees advanced at 104. Holley street dominator intake, 1 7/8 fenderwell headers, race prepped thermoquad, 3000 stall and 3.23 gears. It probably doesnt have 1000 miles on the engine build as i drive it just for fun on the weekends sometimes. I want to get more out of it and want to buy some aluminum heads and a better cam. My first choice in heads would be the trick flows but not sure if i will be able to swing those, so question, what about these speed pro, pro max, edelbrock etc..? I would not be able to afford getting them ported so they would just be checked out of the box and then ran as cast. SO, will all of these heads out of the box outflow the 452's enough to be worth doing this? I thought i read somewhere on here or moparts that all the aluminum heads outflowed stock irons by quite a bit but want to be sure thats true and worth doing this.. Also would like the weight savings of aluminum heads! Next question on the heads, what chamber should i get, closed or open? Like i said, currently with the 452's i am right at 9.5:1 and they are open chamber. I see most of the aluminum heads come in several different cc chambers, open or closed. Now the cam..Need to make the most of the higher flowing heads and need help choosing a cam..all ive heard is how the old MP purple cams like i have are good for sound but not the best for performance, so need help picking a better one. As for the gearing, i will probably step up to 3:55 0r 3:91. This thing may or may not see track time but i DO want it to perform! Thank you all for any help! If i had unlimited funds for this, i would get a lighter piston and all but i cant, and luckily the bottom end is fresh still.
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Have you had a look at 440 Source?

Cylinder Heads & Components-440 Source
 
Oldiron440 said:
I can't believe anyone made power with the team G 440 intake.
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They sent me the wrong intake flange, it was a 4500, I used an adapter to use my 850DP, whether that helped things I don't know but I made the hp and it ran good, That thing ticked over at 850>900rpm and I could almost count the cylinders firing whilst waiting to pull to the box, will never forget that.
 
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PRH said:
I’ll throw this out there.......

Mopar 452 heads are about as easy as it gets to do some mild porting to them and end up with worthwhile gains.

If there are any decent head shops within 2-3hrs of you(so you don’t have to ship them) who are known as a place to have some porting done......... if you’re looking for something budget friendly, it probably wouldn’t get any cheaper than doing some mild porting to your existing heads....... IF ......... they don’t need a bunch of other work along with the porting.
No, with mild porting they won’t flow like Ede heads...... and it’s unlikely you’ll see 550hp........ but you’ll also have a bunch of $$$ left in your wallet.
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I thought a little about trying to port them myself but im afraid to do that. They have already been rebuilt and dont need anything other than the porting but i would hate to mess them up and as far as locals porting i will have to see as i dont know of any..As far as the 440 source heads, do THEY flow as good as the E-streets or are they even a step down from the E-heads >
 
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