famous bob
mopar misfit
I run the same rad in my 68 fastback /505, and I dont have any cooling problems. My engine should make more heat than his ----------its the combination .
Blueprint 408 cooling system questions.
- Thread starter Moparmadness408
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I run the same rad in my 68 fastback /505, and I dont have any cooling problems. My engine should make more heat than his ----------its the combination .
ir3333
Well-Known Member
stock style rads are marginal for performance builds.
I'm betting AJ is right...retarded timing has all the fire in your heads instead of the cylinder
a clutch fan may only turn at 80% crank speed and is inefficient a low speeds..get a stock mechanical fan
gauges are all over the place so buy and install a good one!.
I'm betting AJ is right...retarded timing has all the fire in your heads instead of the cylinder
a clutch fan may only turn at 80% crank speed and is inefficient a low speeds..get a stock mechanical fan
gauges are all over the place so buy and install a good one!.
famous bob
mopar misfit
Gotta agree , a straight fan is about 8ish degrees better than a clutch fan on mine .
I run the clutch fan because I`m trying to make my engine perform like it should ------------
Moparmadness408
Well-Known Member
So it turns out that blueprint engines run hotter during break-in. I got ahold of a service guy there, and he said 210-220 is what the typically what they run during break in, and after about 500-1000 miles should slowly come down to 180 degrees. I do see the posts talking about that my timing is not advanced enough, I could maybe put lighter springs in so the full advance kicks in a lot sooner than 4000, but I can’t make it go past 34 degrees. That’s the max blueprint recommends.
Moparmadness408
Well-Known Member
Basically, the issue is the clutch itself rubs on the radiator, even with no pulley on the water pump it has maybe 1/16 of an inch of clearance which is not enough. Come to think of it, this car originally had a slant 6 in it, and there’s these adapter mounts from trans dapt I bought to get it to go in. I just bought the dual electric fan set up they sell with the radiator.
autoxcuda
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Should have brought that up earlier.
Could be compounding issues. Issues creating other issues. Sounds like your motor could be in the wrong place. What’s your trans mount look like?
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I have always run 195 degree thermostats and a 16 lb cap 50/50 mix antifreeze with a shroud everything from a 6 cyl to a 440 six pack and never have overheating problems.
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mopowers
Well-Known Member
What's an example of a bad 50/50 mix?
By good I meant a true 50/50 mix. In the past I tried straight antifreeze and believe it or not had over heating problems. Went back to a 50/50 mix and it stopped (lesson learned)
What I've also figured out is you need pressure in the system as well. You can actually IMPROVE cooling by using a higher temp thermostat. Cooling an engine is about heat transfer in the radiator.
You have a couple things that are IMPORTANT in a cooling system and most of it relates to raising the boiling point of water. Antifreeze has a higher boiling point. Pressure increases the boiling point as well. Ambient air temperature is a factor as well and you can take advantage of it by using a good fan AND a shroud to pull air through the radiator. Without a shroud all you're doing is swirling air in the engine compartment. I am NOT AN EXPERT BY ANY STRETCH. I am sharing what has worked for me having been at this for 40 years and countless cars.
What I've also figured out is you need pressure in the system as well. You can actually IMPROVE cooling by using a higher temp thermostat. Cooling an engine is about heat transfer in the radiator.
You have a couple things that are IMPORTANT in a cooling system and most of it relates to raising the boiling point of water. Antifreeze has a higher boiling point. Pressure increases the boiling point as well. Ambient air temperature is a factor as well and you can take advantage of it by using a good fan AND a shroud to pull air through the radiator. Without a shroud all you're doing is swirling air in the engine compartment. I am NOT AN EXPERT BY ANY STRETCH. I am sharing what has worked for me having been at this for 40 years and countless cars.
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If I'm needed I'm here. Idk where we landed on this but pm me if needed. Seems OP figured it out in Sept of last year based on threads. Contact me if incorrect
Did the dual fans resolve the cooling issue?
Moparmadness408
Well-Known Member
Ok for everyone that is wondering, so what happened is I called blueprint engines and they said it’s normal for those engines when they’re under 500 miles to run hot. Now in the middle of January where the high gets up to upper forties, the car never gets past 190. So this upcoming spring, we’ll find out.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
never had a performance build change how hot it runs from day 1 to any other day. Ever.
Saying a motor is going to cool down 30 degrees because its “ broken in” is ridiculous. Cant believe anybody would tell you that with a straight face. Anybody.
Probably figure you will throw enough parts at it by then to have replaced what is actually causing the issue. My guess would be weak fan. IF it isnt the motor itself
I had had a number of stroker motors, and none of them have ever approached even 200 degrees with sorted out cooling. From 700 horse 13.5 compression W5 deal,on down to stuff like you have that is a mild performance build. And i street drive anything i have ever had.
Cant think of a single new car i have ever driven that ran cooler later by 30 degrees. All of them have brand new motors in them
And running a new car dealership forever, and now owning my own, i have driven thousands of them
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Engines do run hotter on break in, but should calm down within an hour or so. Breaking in my aircraft air cooled engine took a little over an hour. The oil temp peaked at about 242° and then slowly started to come back down, settling in the 180-190's.
He should be thru that phase.
He should be thru that phase.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
correct, agree about a few minutes, after that should be as normal.
You never stated 6 or 8 vane. And it is?? If it’s a 6 vane you need to pull it and install an 8 vane such as this Gates 43026P.
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Moparmadness408
Well-Known Member
Im running the jegs
I put a jegs high volume water pump on it. It doesn’t say how many vanes it has.
If there’s a way you can ascertain as to how many vanes it has you should because if it’s 6 you need to get an 8 vane in there, it’ll move the water a bit better, and you should have a little lower running temps. I’ve dealt with similar to what you describe, as well as others who have run a Milodon hi volume pump (but it was 6 vanes) where swapping to an 8 vane cured things. Hope you get it sorted regardless
Moparmadness408
Well-Known Member
If it runs hot by summer Ill pull that water pump off, and see how many vanes it has. And let you guys know.If there’s a way you can ascertain as to how many vanes it has you should because if it’s 6 you need to get an 8 vane in there, it’ll move the water a bit better, and you should have a little lower running temps. I’ve dealt with similar to what you describe, as well as others who have run a Milodon hi volume pump (but it was 6 vanes) where swapping to an 8 vane cured things. Hope you get it sorted regardless
I stated what parts I was going to try in my 418, in post #24. After engine start, I had to change out my mopar fan clutch, it was shot, replaced it with the Hayden 2947. Radiator is a 22" Cold Case # MOP 756, I think. Thermostat is a Flowkooler 195°. No cooling problems so far. May have to add a shroud down the road, so far so good.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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My 430 hp 367 ran hot right out of the gate.
After I tried everything, with no improvement, I tore the engine down and
had the cylinders honed another .0005,
then increased the ring gaps;
The engine was put together with a ring-gap factor of .0065.
I increased it to .008 factor
problem solved.
But I gotta tell you, cruising at 2500 or so, your engine will want CRUISE-Timing in the mid to hi 50s . This is in an effort to make the peak pressure occur around 25 to 28 degrees AFTER TDC, while the piston is still very high in the bore; so that the heat of combustion goes to pushing the piston down.
Whereas with your lazy timing the pressure is chasing after the descending piston. So you never get good pressure, for one, but more importantly the heat is going into the cylinder walls as the pistons uncover them. Then on the exhaust stroke, the gasses may not have finished burning yet, and the rising piston begins pushing them out into the headers where they finish burning in the ports and first few inches of the headers; instead of the headers "sucking" them out.
To figure out how much CRUISE-Timing your engine wants;
simply rev it up to cruise rpm and start pulling in timing, while simultaneously reducing the throttle opening to maintain cruise rpm. Just keep pulling and reducing until the engine rpm no longer rises with more timing. Now verify the rpm and read the balancer. Don't be surprised to see around 50* at 2500, or even more. Ok put the timing back.
What you have now, is a no-load optimum timing example at the chosen rpm. While cruising, this may have to be reduced say 3 degrees. Every engine is different .
So with your mechanical timing-only distributor putting out 34* at 4000/ 16 at idle; I'm guessing 25*@ 2500 is about half or less of what she wants.
And therein lies most of your problem.
I mentioned this on post #12, but that was a long time ago.
You will need a proper STREET distributor with as much vacuum-advance timing as you can get out of her, Ima thinking 22* with alloy heads. You will have to just buy whatever and modify the stops to get that much, as none was ever built for that.
And, of course, as already mentioned, you will have to bring the All-in timing in earlier; I suggest 32*/34 (alloy heads) at no later than 3400 rpm
The key is to get the A/F mixture all burned up and applying max pressure to the pistons at 25 to 28* AFTER TDC on the PowerStroke, so as to put all that pressure into the crank; and then sending the relatively cool spent gasses into the headers, instead of ;
heating up the cylinder walls..... with the water jackets right there....., and then sending the still burning gasses into the headers, thru the ports..
After I tried everything, with no improvement, I tore the engine down and
had the cylinders honed another .0005,
then increased the ring gaps;
The engine was put together with a ring-gap factor of .0065.
I increased it to .008 factor
problem solved.
But I gotta tell you, cruising at 2500 or so, your engine will want CRUISE-Timing in the mid to hi 50s . This is in an effort to make the peak pressure occur around 25 to 28 degrees AFTER TDC, while the piston is still very high in the bore; so that the heat of combustion goes to pushing the piston down.
Whereas with your lazy timing the pressure is chasing after the descending piston. So you never get good pressure, for one, but more importantly the heat is going into the cylinder walls as the pistons uncover them. Then on the exhaust stroke, the gasses may not have finished burning yet, and the rising piston begins pushing them out into the headers where they finish burning in the ports and first few inches of the headers; instead of the headers "sucking" them out.
To figure out how much CRUISE-Timing your engine wants;
simply rev it up to cruise rpm and start pulling in timing, while simultaneously reducing the throttle opening to maintain cruise rpm. Just keep pulling and reducing until the engine rpm no longer rises with more timing. Now verify the rpm and read the balancer. Don't be surprised to see around 50* at 2500, or even more. Ok put the timing back.
What you have now, is a no-load optimum timing example at the chosen rpm. While cruising, this may have to be reduced say 3 degrees. Every engine is different .
So with your mechanical timing-only distributor putting out 34* at 4000/ 16 at idle; I'm guessing 25*@ 2500 is about half or less of what she wants.
And therein lies most of your problem.
I mentioned this on post #12, but that was a long time ago.
You will need a proper STREET distributor with as much vacuum-advance timing as you can get out of her, Ima thinking 22* with alloy heads. You will have to just buy whatever and modify the stops to get that much, as none was ever built for that.
And, of course, as already mentioned, you will have to bring the All-in timing in earlier; I suggest 32*/34 (alloy heads) at no later than 3400 rpm
The key is to get the A/F mixture all burned up and applying max pressure to the pistons at 25 to 28* AFTER TDC on the PowerStroke, so as to put all that pressure into the crank; and then sending the relatively cool spent gasses into the headers, instead of ;
heating up the cylinder walls..... with the water jackets right there....., and then sending the still burning gasses into the headers, thru the ports..
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If it’s this one you have it is a 6 vane. JEGS 51080: High-Flow Water Pump for 1970-1988 Small Block Chrysler 318-360 | JEGSHere’s a long thread from a guy who had a hot running van, temps ran high and crept up and couldn’t control it, changed everything, got all scientific and technical, changed everything there was to change, throwing parts at it, had bought a new MP hi volume water pump early on and never gave it a second thought. Finally was convinced to ditch the 6 vane pump for an 8 vane and guess what? Problem solved. Took severe arm twisting to get him to consider it. Not the first to fall victim to a supposed hi volume/flow 6 vane pump. I will never run one ever again in any setup period, a/c or balls out drag vehicle. It’s 8 vanes only. Runs Hot - Out of Ideas
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famous bob
mopar misfit
SAME RAD. I`M USING ON MY 440/505 , NOT HAVING A PROBLEM W/ IT !
Fan , shroud , pulley ratio, good water pump .
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