A body lower control arm shaft kit.

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circlepilot

circlepilot

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I rebuilt my lower control arms for my 65 Barracuda. (using the videos in the how to articles) I did the mod for removing the adjuster arm play and installed the stiffening plate. I replace the control arm shafts with a kit from Proforged. There were no instructions for their installation. I installed the bushing shell first, then the bushing, finally the shaft. I pressed the bushing in until it was seated against the shell with no gaps. I pressed the shafts in until the flange on the shaft was seated against the bushing. Looking into (second picture) the torsion rod fitting, I can see that some of the bushing "extruded" out from the bottom of the shaft. Question: Has anyone else noticed this when installing these shafts and bushings?
Norm
More Information for PROFORGED 12010003

lower control arm.jpg


lower control arm1.jpg
 
That probably won't be an issue. I have not used those poly bushings, though. The torsion bars are a bit shorter than the overall distance that they fit into.
 
Jim Lusk said:
That probably won't be an issue. I have not used those poly bushings, though. The torsion bars are a bit shorter than the overall distance that they fit into.
Click to expand...
I used your video on the rebuild. My "bumper plates" were held in place with four, stout spot welds. Drilled out one side, did the squeeze job and welded up the entire side of the plate. Installing the stiffing plates are a great addition. I do all of my welding with oxyacetylene. Really appreciate your videos.
Norm
 
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I recently just did the exact same process as you and used the same Proforged part as replacement. I got the same result with the small bulge at the bottom, but I would agree it shouldn't be an issue at all.
 
circlepilot said:
I used your video on the rebuild. My "bumper plates" were held in place with four, stout spot welds. Drilled out one side, did the squeeze job and welded up the entire side of the plate. Installing the stiffing plates are a great addition. I do all of my welding with oxyacetylene. Really appreciate your videos.
Norm
Click to expand...

I've done one set of LCAs with the big spot welds. They're not too bad to work with.
 
Same thing when I installed my proforged bushings with the bulge on inside.I think the pins need to be chamfered a bit befor you slide them in.The edges are too sharp.
 
Hey not to steal your thread, but what did you guys use as the torque spec on the nut? I've read with other poly bushing/greaseable shaft kits that they use a lower than factory spec, don't want to break my new parts!
Thanks in advance!
 
Hi Guys,
My 74 Dart needed LCA bushings. I had both sides replaced with Pro Forged kit.
The right side shaft tightened and was torqued. The left side shaft got six threads tight and started to spin shaft and bushing. Not good. The shaft is still in frame, I pushed the LCA away and out from under.

Working on the concrete and under the car port. Upon inspection, the bushing was greased inside the shell. After the fact, I read the factory manual which states- No grease or lubricants.
I think this is why the shaft and bushing spun.

Can I install a new bushing and shaft into the same shell, cleaned completely of grease?
The LCA arms are original.

The Landlord wants this car on all wheels and moved. Or He will have it towed.

I am spun about the drama. any experience or helpful ways would be appreciared.
thanks,
Dave dave.dumais@yahoo.com
 
ddume said:
Hi Guys,
My 74 Dart needed LCA bushings. I had both sides replaced with Pro Forged kit.
The right side shaft tightened and was torqued. The left side shaft got six threads tight and started to spin shaft and bushing. Not good. The shaft is still in frame, I pushed the LCA away and out from under.

Working on the concrete and under the car port. Upon inspection, the bushing was greased inside the shell. After the fact, I read the factory manual which states- No grease or lubricants.
I think this is why the shaft and bushing spun.

Can I install a new bushing and shaft into the same shell, cleaned completely of grease?
The LCA arms are original.

The Landlord wants this car on all wheels and moved. Or He will have it towed.

I am spun about the drama. any experience or helpful ways would be appreciared.
thanks,
Dave dave.dumais@yahoo.com
Click to expand...

Dave, you can press the new bushing and shaft into the outer shell, no problem.

And forget what the factory service manual says regarding the grease, it's not the reason why the pin is spinning. The factory service manual is for rubber bushings, which are different in both material AND construction from the poly bushings. The factory rubber bushings have a different installation process. Poly bushings NEED to be lubricated, they do not work the same way as rubber bushings. That’s why they have greaseable LCA pins for them.

The pin spinning in the bushing can be a problem with the poly bushings when trying to torque the LCA pin nuts. I generally start tightening the LCA pivot pin nut with an impact wrench, because usually that will tighten the pivot nut fast enough that it will get to the point that the nut is pulling enough tension on the pivot pin that the pin won't spin. And since the LCA pin nuts with aftermarket pins get tightened to 100 ft/lbs the impact isn’t an issue.

Alternatively, since you have slid the LCA back off the pin, you can probably grab the round shoulder of the pin that sits against the bushing with a set of channel locks or vice grips. Do not grab the section of pin that the bushing will slide over, as that will damage the bushing later. I’ll highlight that in a second. Once again, because these are poly bushings, there is no need for the car to be at ride height, or even for the pin to be inside the LCA, for the LCA pivot nut to be tightened. The poly bushing inside the shell should slide back onto the pin, even with the pin mounted in the K-frame and tightened already. Probably not the easiest way to do it, but if you pulled the LCA and bushing off the pin already it should slide back on too.

I grease everything, I use regular wheel bearing grease on the part of the LCA pivot pin that goes inside the K-frame because it will keep the pivot pin and the inside of the tube in the K frame from rusting, which helps remove the pin easier later if necessary. The pivot pin doesn't spin so it doesn't matter otherwise. And I use poly or delrin LCA bushings, so, the poly ones get lubricated with poly specific grease like they're supposed to. Don't blindly follow the FSM for aftermarket parts, follow the instructions for the aftermarket parts.

***edit***
Here's what I'm talking about. You should be able to grab the outside of this round shoulder with a set of channel locks or vice grips. Do not grab the surface the bushing will ride on (blue highlight).

HSS-3005_MF_xl.jpg
 
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72bluNblu said:
Dave, you can press the new bushing and shaft into the outer shell, no problem.

72 bluNblu,
Thank you for this information. Unfortunately, I removed the outer shell and orderd a new set of same shafts and bushings.
If all goes well, I will impact the nut on pin once the arm is in place. What a buster when laying on your back in this weather.
Once nut tightens, and shaft draws up instead of spinning, I will do the happy dance.
Again, thank you!

And forget what the factory service manual says regarding the grease, it's not the reason why the pin is spinning. The factory service manual is for rubber bushings, which are different in both material AND construction from the poly bushings. The factory rubber bushings have a different installation process. Poly bushings NEED to be lubricated, they do not work the same way as rubber bushings. That’s why they have greaseable LCA pins for them.

The pin spinning in the bushing can be a problem with the poly bushings when trying to torque the LCA pin nuts. I generally start tightening the LCA pivot pin nut with an impact wrench, because usually that will tighten the pivot nut fast enough that it will get to the point that the nut is pulling enough tension on the pivot pin that the pin won't spin. And since the LCA pin nuts with aftermarket pins get tightened to 100 ft/lbs the impact isn’t an issue.

Alternatively, since you have slid the LCA back off the pin, you can probably grab the round shoulder of the pin that sits against the bushing with a set of channel locks or vice grips. Do not grab the section of pin that the bushing will slide over, as that will damage the bushing later. I’ll highlight that in a second. Once again, because these are poly bushings, there is no need for the car to be at ride height, or even for the pin to be inside the LCA, for the LCA pivot nut to be tightened. The poly bushing inside the shell should slide back onto the pin, even with the pin mounted in the K-frame and tightened already. Probably not the easiest way to do it, but if you pulled the LCA and bushing off the pin already it should slide back on too.

I grease everything, I use regular wheel bearing grease on the part of the LCA pivot pin that goes inside the K-frame because it will keep the pivot pin and the inside of the tube in the K frame from rusting, which helps remove the pin easier later if necessary. The pivot pin doesn't spin so it doesn't matter otherwise. And I use poly or delrin LCA bushings, so, the poly ones get lubricated with poly specific grease like they're supposed to. Don't blindly follow the FSM for aftermarket parts, follow the instructions for the aftermarket parts.

***edit***
Here's what I'm talking about. You should be able to grab the outside of this round shoulder with a set of channel locks or vice grips. Do not grab the surface the bushing will ride on (blue highlight).

View attachment 1715661516
Click to expand...
 
Hey,
I had the exact same issue when installing this kit. I did the same thing, shell then bushing then shaft. I ended up doing it 4 times with 2 kits well I talked back and forth to pro forged for 2 weeks
Good guys and they sent me another kit after the bushing got wrecked but this kit sucks to install. Basically the bushing is longer up to the shoulder than the sleeve on the lca is deep, so if you press in the bushing to bottom out the shoulder then it collapses and bulges on the bottom and when the pivot shaft is pressed into the bushing it actually sheers off the bulge. Not ideal.
The way to get around it is to put the bushing onto the pin first and then Press both into the LCA so the bushing can’t bulge. What you end up with is the bushing shoulder 1/8 of an inch or more away from the sleeve on the lca I just deleted about 50 photos from the process but here is one from under the car to show the gap.
These bushing are also more plastic than poly which is also suspicious, proforged promised they were poly so we’ll see how they hold up.
Edit: ditch their stupid crush nuts too ASAP They will completely wreck the threads. Use your old ones or go buy some nylock style

1A75C280-F167-4C2B-A252-3675E8997579.jpeg
 
273valiant said:
Hey,
I had the exact same issue when installing this kit. I did the same thing, shell then bushing then shaft. I ended up doing it 4 times with 2 kits well I talked back and forth to pro forged for 2 weeks
Good guys and they sent me another kit after the bushing got wrecked but this kit sucks to install. Basically the bushing is longer up to the shoulder than the sleeve on the lca is deep, so if you press in the bushing to bottom out the shoulder then it collapses and bulges on the bottom and when the pivot shaft is pressed into the bushing it actually sheers off the bulge. Not ideal.
The way to get around it is to put the bushing onto the pin first and then Press both into the LCA so the bushing can’t bulge. What you end up with is the bushing shoulder 1/8 of an inch or more away from the sleeve on the lca I just deleted about 50 photos from the process but here is one from under the car to show the gap.
These bushing are also more plastic than poly which is also suspicious, proforged promised they were poly so we’ll see how they hold up.
Edit: ditch their stupid crush nuts too ASAP They will completely wreck the threads. Use your old ones or go buy some nylock style

View attachment 1715667457
Click to expand...

273, Good suggestion on ditching the crush nuts, they would destroy the threads on removal, I replaced mine with a set grade 8 poly lock nuts.

Installed my Proforged kit today, went pretty smooth, as you mentioned press the shell > bushing > pivot shaft. My bushings went down nice and flush on the shell.

Before I pressed the shells I ran a sanding drum on my die grinder around in control arm to knock out the fresh paint and some old gouges that were present.

Upon installation I thought I would have an issue drawing the pivot shaft tight against the k-frame, ended putting some light grease on the shafts and drew them in with the old pivot shaft nuts.
 
ddume said:
Hi Guys,
My 74 Dart needed LCA bushings. I had both sides replaced with Pro Forged kit.
The right side shaft tightened and was torqued. The left side shaft got six threads tight and started to spin shaft and bushing. Not good. The shaft is still in frame, I pushed the LCA away and out from under.

Working on the concrete and under the car port. Upon inspection, the bushing was greased inside the shell. After the fact, I read the factory manual which states- No grease or lubricants.
I think this is why the shaft and bushing spun.

Can I install a new bushing and shaft into the same shell, cleaned completely of grease?
The LCA arms are original.

The Landlord wants this car on all wheels and moved. Or He will have it towed.

I am spun about the drama. any experience or helpful ways would be appreciared.
thanks,
Dave dave.dumais@yahoo.com
Click to expand...
Reason I put " disagree" is because yer landlord is an asshole
 
Like I said earlier in the thread, if you use my pins and delrin bushings, this wouldn't be an issue. Delrin is better material for this and you don't need the outer shells which aren't round anyway. Long like and zero hassles. My pins are same rockwell hardness as the originals too. Bergmanautocraft.com
 
273valiant said:
Hey,
I had the exact same issue when installing this kit. I did the same thing, shell then bushing then shaft. I ended up doing it 4 times with 2 kits well I talked back and forth to pro forged for 2 weeks
Good guys and they sent me another kit after the bushing got wrecked but this kit sucks to install. Basically the bushing is longer up to the shoulder than the sleeve on the lca is deep, so if you press in the bushing to bottom out the shoulder then it collapses and bulges on the bottom and when the pivot shaft is pressed into the bushing it actually sheers off the bulge. Not ideal.
The way to get around it is to put the bushing onto the pin first and then Press both into the LCA so the bushing can’t bulge. What you end up with is the bushing shoulder 1/8 of an inch or more away from the sleeve on the lca I just deleted about 50 photos from the process but here is one from under the car to show the gap.
These bushing are also more plastic than poly which is also suspicious, proforged promised they were poly so we’ll see how they hold up.
Edit: ditch their stupid crush nuts too ASAP They will completely wreck the threads. Use your old ones or go buy some nylock style

View attachment 1715667457
Click to expand...
I ran into same installation issue, poly bushing fully seated in LCA and have a 1/8” gap between bottom of poly collar and top of inner shell with pivot shaft collar seated on top. Is this a problem having the LCA moved 1/8” rearward? Thanks!

2D4060C2-35B3-4861-87F6-E4C7F881348C.jpeg


CE6ED2A9-7609-4197-89E4-A51014093CD2.jpeg
 
Yes, that’s a problem. The shoulder of that bushing needs to sit flush against the shoulder on the LCA. When installed the bushing should be up against the shoulder of the LCA pivot pin on one side and against the LCA on the other.

02DEF89C-CDE9-4AF9-AECD-9861298B83F0.jpeg


8E09670D-5EFD-4239-A7D9-35E9138DD08B.jpeg
 
72bluNblu said:
Yes, that’s a problem. The shoulder of that bushing needs to sit flush against the shoulder on the LCA. When installed the bushing should be up against the shoulder of the LCA pivot pin on one side and against the LCA on the other.

View attachment 1715974559

View attachment 1715974560
Click to expand...
Would it be best to remove shaft and continue pressing poly bushing until seated and then reinstall shaft?

Will the excess poly that is pushed past bottom seating area interfere with torsion bar installation?

I stopped pin installation when pin collar was firmly seated on poly collar. Rather than removing pin, would continued press on pin installed in poly bushing work or would the collar of pin start to go into poly bushing.

It would be nice if poly bushing was trimmed to correct length.

I’m new at this and don’t want to destroy this kit trying to install it.

Many thanks!
 
Benstruck said:
Would it be best to remove shaft and continue pressing poly bushing until seated and then reinstall shaft?

Will the excess poly that is pushed past bottom seating area interfere with torsion bar installation?

I stopped pin installation when pin collar was firmly seated on poly collar. Rather than removing pin, would continued press on pin installed in poly bushing work or would the collar of pin start to go into poly bushing.

It would be nice if poly bushing was trimmed to correct length.

I’m new at this and don’t want to destroy this kit trying to install it.

Many thanks!
Click to expand...

Given the other comments on this thread I'm not entirely sure Proforged is making these bushings to the proper dimensions, although the factory was pretty loose on its tolerances as well so that could be compounding the issue. The pivot pin should not be peeling any poly bushing material with it when you install the pin in the bushing. It should be a tight slip fit, because the bushing has to spin on the pivot pin for the suspension to move. If the inner surface of the bushing is being damaged when the pin is installed, it will not work properly because it will not rotate smoothly on the pin when it's on the car. Did you grease the pins before you installed them?

When I install the poly bushings I install the bushing into the outer bushing shell of the LCA first, then install the pin after. Everything gets greased, the old outer shell, the outside of the LCA bushing, the inside of the LCA bushing and the pivot pin. The fit has to be right too, the bushing should be a tight slip fit into the old outer bushing shell and the pin should be a tight slip fit into the bushing. If the fit is not a tight slip fit, you need to replace the old outer shell so a tight slip fit is achieved. If the fit between the old shells, bushings and pins isn't a tight slip fit, you'll end up destroying the bushings in a short period of time.

Poly bushings do not function anything like the factory rubber bushings. With the rubber LCA bushings the bushing does not move against the pin or the outer shell, it's a friction fit. The LCA moves and the rubber bushing itself flexes between the inner and outer shells. Poly is too stiff to flex like that, when the LCA moves the poly LCA bushing rotates on the pivot pin (or in the outer shell). Since you have a sliding surface, it needs to be greased. And yeah, the surface needs to be smooth so if the pivot pin is peeling up bushing when you install it those bushings are already toast.
 
72bluNblu said:
Given the other comments on this thread I'm not entirely sure Proforged is making these bushings to the proper dimensions, although the factory was pretty loose on its tolerances as well so that could be compounding the issue. The pivot pin should not be peeling any poly bushing material with it when you install the pin in the bushing. It should be a tight slip fit, because the bushing has to spin on the pivot pin for the suspension to move. If the inner surface of the bushing is being damaged when the pin is installed, it will not work properly because it will not rotate smoothly on the pin when it's on the car. Did you grease the pins before you installed them?

When I install the poly bushings I install the bushing into the outer bushing shell of the LCA first, then install the pin after. Everything gets greased, the old outer shell, the outside of the LCA bushing, the inside of the LCA bushing and the pivot pin. The fit has to be right too, the bushing should be a tight slip fit into the old outer bushing shell and the pin should be a tight slip fit into the bushing. If the fit is not a tight slip fit, you need to replace the old outer shell so a tight slip fit is achieved. If the fit between the old shells, bushings and pins isn't a tight slip fit, you'll end up destroying the bushings in a short period of time.

Poly bushings do not function anything like the factory rubber bushings. With the rubber LCA bushings the bushing does not move against the pin or the outer shell, it's a friction fit. The LCA moves and the rubber bushing itself flexes between the inner and outer shells. Poly is too stiff to flex like that, when the LCA moves the poly LCA bushing rotates on the pivot pin (or in the outer shell). Since you have a sliding surface, it needs to be greased. And yeah, the surface needs to be smooth so if the pivot pin is peeling up bushing when you install it those bushings are already toast.
Click to expand...

I’ll send some more pics tomorrow. The poly bushings in my kit are longer than the outer metal bushing. Test fit with just poly bushing into LCA bore, with poly bushing at bottom of LCA bore, there is a ~1/8” gap between bottom of collar and LCA bore. Short of making poly busing shorter or trying to force poly bushing past bottom of bore there will be a gap.

pics tomorrow
Thanks!
 
Benstruck said:
I’ll send some more pics tomorrow. The poly bushings in my kit are longer than the outer metal bushing. Test fit with just poly bushing into LCA bore, with poly bushing at bottom of LCA bore, there is a ~1/8” gap between bottom of collar and LCA bore. Short of making poly busing shorter or trying to force poly bushing past bottom of bore there will be a gap.

pics tomorrow
Thanks!
Click to expand...

Yeah that doesn't sound right, the shoulder on the bushing should sit flush against the LCA so it can have a positive stop when the shoulder on the pin presses against the outside of the bushing. As they are the bushing would need to be shortened. Seems like Proforged missed on this one, which is too bad because the other stuff they're making has been pretty good quality.
 
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