Just wonderin'...

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Captainkirk

Captainkirk

Old School Mopar Warrior
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Been binge-watching "Graveyard Carz" for a few weeks now, and I really like the way Mark and crew install the motor/trans and K-frame with suspension...from the underneath. Of course, they have the luxury of a four point lift and can lift the car up to eyeball level. I, on the other hand, have a car with no drive train, suspension or K-frame up on 18" extension jackstands; room enough to scoot around on a creeper with ease. Has anyone tried installing the K frame and engine from the bottom without using a lift, or is this a just plain "don't do it" kinda thing? I realize I could probably tilt the nose up some, but this would leave the frame rails rocking on two jack stands (possibly very dangerous?) and then the added weight of K-frame and motor would probably make it front-heavy.
So, question is; has anyone done this, and does it work/not work? If so, how did you go about it? Thanks.
 
If you have the rear end under the car....If you have or can borrow a heavy duty engine lift

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You should be able to lift the front of the car (chassis) then position the engine w/suspension and lower the body down over the engine assembly. Many have done it that way.
 
I've seen people talk about raising the front up with a cherry picker and rolling the k frame under the car, seems like a pita to me, but it works, I on the other hand have a two post lift and bought a cradle on wheels made to hold the k frame ,engine and trans. and all acc. on engine it works very nice I worked at a place that restored cars and they went out of business and I bought both of there stands to do it . so glad I have them.
 
Done it dozens of times with an engine hoist. Hard to do by yourself but can be done. Of course the hoist I used is not from Harbor Freight, LOL...
 
i did mine by myself. piece of cake.

with the rear in and rear tires mounted makes a good pivot point.

i used the two inner front bumper brackets an old bumper and some chain between the front bumper bolts. but i used grade 8 nuts, bolts, washers instead of the carriage bolts to jack the body up with a cherry picker.
 
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I expect you’ll get a bunch of responses on guys who have done it. Works great, once everything is unhooked it’s about a 10 minute job to actually drop or bolt back in
 
I'm using this from down under method when I put my motor back in. It came out the top after the trans was dropped, and the hoist I have didn't have enough reach to get to the center of the motor so I had to rig it and it was a PITA.
 
This is how the factory originally installed the engines. Never done it this way myself but I heard its the cats meow.
 
Captainkirk said:
Been binge-watching "Graveyard Carz" for a few weeks now, and I really like the way Mark and crew install the motor/trans and K-frame with suspension...from the underneath. Of course, they have the luxury of a four point lift and can lift the car up to eyeball level. I, on the other hand, have a car with no drive train, suspension or K-frame up on 18" extension jackstands; room enough to scoot around on a creeper with ease. Has anyone tried installing the K frame and engine from the bottom without using a lift, or is this a just plain "don't do it" kinda thing? I realize I could probably tilt the nose up some, but this would leave the frame rails rocking on two jack stands (possibly very dangerous?) and then the added weight of K-frame and motor would probably make it front-heavy.
So, question is; has anyone done this, and does it work/not work? If so, how did you go about it? Thanks.
Click to expand...
I’ve done the engine/trans connected combo install from under the car. But I wouldn’t suggest to follow unless you have a lack of equipment like I did. It’s not hard to align, just a PIA to do and a bit slower, read on.

I was doing some paint work on the Magnum and had it up on Jack stands.
B9374B4B-4D97-4776-9A37-680F3FE781DF.jpeg
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I put the engine in the K frame with the transmission connected on a dolly under the car roughly in place.
A Hyd floor jack bouncing left to right side lowered the car one Jack tooth at a time until I got to this point.
E3B120D4-797C-468E-888C-B36BC9997857.jpeg


Just shimmy and shove the K frame to get one of the bolts in and loosely. This is now a pivot point that will help but not Guarantee the other three holes line up. Once you get all the bolts in, slowly tighten hem up while paying attention to exactly where the K frame is coming to rest on the subframe. This is less of an issue with your K frame than the later year K frame like my Magnum which has the ISO mounts. They have very long attaching bolts and two rubber bushing above and below the K frame which makes it like Jello ish until you find exactly where you want it.

Now from there, start reassembled the front end and carry on....

Its a bit slow going down one tooth at a time dragging the Jack from side to side but it’ll work. Just take it slow.
 
I've done 5 engine installs in classic Mopars so far (peanuts compared to others here), first was from the top all the rest were from the bottom except putting the latest engine in my Duster because I didn't want to remove the trans (which also involves removing the exhaust since my car has an X-pipe) or take the front suspension apart. If the car is already apart like @moper said it's definitely the way to go. Using the longest engine hoist you can get helps a lot too the legs get in the way when you're trying to position the k-member.
 
Yup, I've done it several times with an engine hoist on the floor. My most recent one was on Calvin's Duster a couple or so years ago.
 
It's a 'poser' method. The reason they do it on Graveyard is that it probably has some benefit when you are attempting to restore a car to factory specs with all the paint marks and clips and tags. It allows you to assemble all that goo-goo away from the car then fit it in as a package.

On anything else, it's of very dubious benefit. On the flip side, installing an engine and transmission from the top using a cherry picker (or forklift ala 99% of TV shows on Earth) is also lame.

First drop the engine in from above. Then, install the trans from under the car, on a lift if at all possible. That gives you the best in terms of ease, lowest risk of damage, and making everything fit properly.
 
I gotta disagree with Greg a little bit. While I’ve done both ways over the last 30 years, ether is easy enough to knock out. I find it is mostly dependent on what work I’m doing and what state the car is in. I won’t stand firm and say “Do how I did it on the Magnum.” That particular route was done since I had everything apart for painting. When I do just an engine, a cherry picker is employed. An engine trans combo together is easy enough via up top but the chances of a scratch are easier. Just use a blanket or two to protect the paint when the engine & trans combo go in together. You’ll be fine.

When removing or installing the engine by itself, I suggest no intake, no exhaust manifolds, only the front timing chain cover installed. This clears up real estate that helps a lot. You may not think it but it does.
 
gregcon said:
It's a 'poser' method. The reason they do it on Graveyard is that it probably has some benefit when you are attempting to restore a car to factory specs with all the paint marks and clips and tags. It allows you to assemble all that goo-goo away from the car then fit it in as a package.
Click to expand...

The reason they do it on GYC, according to Mark Worman, is because that's how it was done at the factory. No sure how this translates to a "poser" method...easier is easier, in my book?

gregcon said:
On anything else, it's of very dubious benefit. On the flip side, installing an engine and transmission from the top using a cherry picker (or forklift ala 99% of TV shows on Earth) is also lame.
Click to expand...

You're not leaving a lot of options open here...If you try to install engine and trans as a unit from above, you're pretty much asking to scratch the firewall and tunnel (ask me how I know) and even with the spline coupling installed on the output shaft, your chances of dumping the trans fluid (in my case, gear oil) on the garage floor are excellent. Right in the place you need to roll your creeper around in next.

gregcon said:
First drop the engine in from above. Then, install the trans from under the car, on a lift if at all possible. That gives you the best in terms of ease, lowest risk of damage, and making everything fit properly.
Click to expand...

Installing a trans, even a manual trans, from under a car is a major PITA. At my age it's definitely a two man job. Filling a manual trans from down under is nothing less than a headache even with a pump. The reason I even have a pump is because it's such a *****. When I watch the GYC crew drop the car onto the K-frame, it's like a 3 minute operation to get the K frame under the car, to bolted in. It's not like I haven't done it the old way, more like "been there, don't like it, show me a better way." Hence, this thread.
 
If the Graveyard guys are doing it because that's how the factory did it....that's Poser 101 right there. There are a billion things they are doing that don't echo the factory, so why is that one of importance? I really think they are doing it for the reason I mentioned. Few of us are working on 100% type restorations.

Installing a trans from under a car is super - easy. Roll it under on the trans jack, pump it up, and bolt it up. I agree...if you are trying to install a manual box on your back, it's hard. But that's a basic equipment issue. I promised myself I would own a lift before I turned 30, and I made sure it happened.

As for installing the engine and trans together..your comments above are the same as mine.
 
Quite easy, that core support is far stronger than it looks, zero deflection. I get comments every time I show these pictures.
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Alan
 
@gregcon That is so not loser 101. That is just simply the way there doing it and say, mean it or not, this is the way the factory did it as some type of justification or excuse like, “This is the right way....” and that’s all fine and good but however you yourself want to do it, then do it that way because it makes you happy.

Im no GYC’s fan by any means and I don’t like Mark at all. But to call it a poser method? LMAO....

As I said above/before, what ever makes it easier on you, who is doing the work. No sense going the hard route or longer route because the factory did it that way, or this way because someone said this that or the other thing.
 
gregcon said:
If the Graveyard guys are doing it because that's how the factory did it....that's Poser 101 right there. There are a billion things they are doing that don't echo the factory, so why is that one of importance? I really think they are doing it for the reason I mentioned. Few of us are working on 100% type restorations.
Click to expand...

Greg, I don't think GYC, or anyone else is installing as an assembly from underneath to be a "poser"...poser for what? It looks like a much easier way to roll than fighting tooth and nail and scratching up a freshly painted engine bay/firewall/tunnel area with a freshly painted engine. Like I mentioned, this ain't my first rodeo. I'm looking for a better way than I had to work with back when bell bottoms were in style (first time around). As for a tranny jack, yeah...it would be great, but why dump $3-400.00 into something I'll hopefully never use again in my lifetime? If you're planning on doing numerous restos, then it's a great idea! I'm not. I'm looking for the fastest, easiest and cheapest way to install the engine and K-frame with the least collateral damage.
I did my entire underside on my back with a wire wheel and a can of brush-on Rustoleum. Would it have been 1,000 times easier to do it using a Whirly Jig? You bet! But it's a one time deal, and I can better use the $1000.00+ in other areas. Would using a Whirly Jig make a guy a poser as well? Sure hope not, because if I had one I would have used it.
I say whatever works for you and your budget, go for it. But that's just me.
 
Actually, I do agree...whatever works best. But I think there's an air of snobbery that comes with it. The same people who have infiltrated the Mopar world with Code-Talk and Numbers-Matching talk also like to strut around with their K frame bit. As if they are doing it 'the right way' and anything else is lesser.

My goal when working on a car is 'do no harm'. IMO, lifting a car that high is a PITA and more likely have opportunities for problems. That's why I don't do it. Of course, the mere fact that the whole alignment gets affected is another reason.
 
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