Ignition help needed. 1973 Duster

I'm fixing up a 1973 duster with a 1974 318 under the hood. Won't turn over unless the starter is shorted, won't start at that point. I suspect the ignition coil has gone bad but that shouldn't stop it from turning over...
It has a new starter, battery, and starter relay. all with good clean connections. Just confused at this point

Andrew Ebersole said:

I'm fixing up a 1973 duster with a 1974 318 under the hood. Won't turn over unless the starter is shorted, won't start at that point. I suspect the ignition coil has gone bad but that shouldn't stop it from turning over...
It has a new starter, battery, and starter relay. all with good clean connections. Just confused at this point

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Ignition fuse?...

MoparLeo said:

So you are saying that nothing happens when you turn the ignition key but the starter will engage when you jump the solenoid in the fender ?

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Exactly

Did you check that you get power to the solenoid/relay and/or coil when you turn the key to the start position ?

MoparLeo said:

Did you check that you get power to the solenoid/relay and/or coil when you turn the key to the start position ?

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Every port on the relay is good and the solenoid is getting power. I admit I haven't used a meter on it but it turns over when you short the circuit. As for the Coil, I haven't touched it

MoparLeo said:

So you are saying that nothing happens when you turn the ignition key but the starter will engage when you jump the solenoid in the fender ?
Have a cheap multi meter or test light ?
When key is on do you get current to the coil ?, ballast,
Remember that new doesn't always mean it works. If you have the old relay etc... reinstall and retest.
What is the condition of the wiring ? Can you post a picture of what you are working with ?

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I cant post pictures right now. gone home for the day

Andrew Ebersole said:

Every port on the relay is good and the solenoid is getting power. I admit I haven't used a meter on it but it turns over when you short the circuit. As for the Coil, I haven't touched it

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Your statement is confusing, or at least not telling us what we need. What do you mean "the solenoid is getting power?" Power "where?"

The large solenoid terminal ALWAYS gets battery power. The small terminal gets power from the starter relay when triggered by the key in "start." So I'm "guessing" the small terminal is NOT getting power otherwise you whould not be able to "'short" the whatever you are shorting to crank it

SO LET'S TROUBLESHOOT

First find the starter relay and jumper (screwdriver pliers etc) the two largest bare terminals. Be careful, keep the transmission out of gear. It should crank.

If that happens, next probe the two SMALLEST terminals on the relay. Do not disconnect them, leave everything connected, "backprobe" them, with remaining meter probe (or test light) grounded.

One terminal should go down the firewall to transmission (if automatic) or in through a separate firewall grommet into the interior if stick. Probe that terminal, twist the key to start. If you get battery voltage or a light, the neutral safety or clutch switch is NOT grounding so the relay can operate. You can temporarily "try" pulling the wire off and grounding that terminal of the relay If it cranks, concentrate on neutral switch/ shifter adjustment

Another test is to hold the key in start (automatic) and wiggle the shifter from park to neutural and back. If you get a click or try to crank, you have a shifter adjustment or related shift linkage problem

If you do NOT get voltage or a light with key in start, move to the remaining small terminal of the relay. This is often a yellow wire but not always. When key is in "start" that wire/ terminal should be "hot." IF not make CERTAIN!!! That you do NOT have the dreaded '74 only seatbelt interlock. This is a horn-relay sized box with a reset button, normally on the left fender apron.

If you do NOT have that box and the yellow wire is NOT getting power in start, that sources comes from the ignition switch, through the column connector, to and through the bulkhead connector, and out to the relay

IF YOU DO NOT have a service manual you need to get over to MyMopar and download one--free

Reinstall the original relay to see if the relay is faulty. Just takes a few minutes.
Electrical diagnostics.
Battery fully charged ? All connections and grounds clean and tight ?
If so you can now start doing component testing.
When you turn the key to start, do the dash/oil lights etc... come on ?
Electrical is typically something basic.

67Dart273 said:

Your statement is confusing, or at least not telling us what we need. What do you mean "the solenoid is getting power?" Power "where?"

The large solenoid terminal ALWAYS gets battery power. The small terminal gets power from the starter relay when triggered by the key in "start." So I'm "guessing" the small terminal is NOT getting power otherwise you whould not be able to "'short" the whatever you are shorting to crank it

SO LET'S TROUBLESHOOT

First find the starter relay and jumper (screwdriver pliers etc) the two largest bare terminals. Be careful, keep the transmission out of gear. It should crank.

If that happens, next probe the two SMALLEST terminals on the relay. Do not disconnect them, leave everything connected, "backprobe" them

Click to expand...

I believe I understand what you're getting at. I'll double check connections on the solenoid and do as you said with the relay. not sure when I'll be back to report on results. Thanks for the advice anyway.

If it is auto trans, the relay gets it's ground connection from the neutral/park switch on the trans. Check out the shifter adjustment/wiring. The switch could also be faulty. So could the relay.
Get somebody to touch the relay as you turn the ign switch to the 'crank' position. If they feel a click, the relay is working, but there is a problem with the relay contacts &/or wiring if the engine fails to crank.
If there is no click, relay could be faulty, ground missing [ as described above ] or 12V to relay is missing.

When the ignition switch is turned to start, it sends 12 volts on yellow wire to starter relay and also sends full 12 volts to coil on another wire (brown or blue, I forget). When the ignition switch is in run position and you jump the starter relay, the coil doesn't get full 12 volts. Engine might not start on the reduced run voltage ( the other of brown or blue ). If choke is closed and you've turned it over enough it may now be flooded.
I have found that when the neutral safety switch is slightly out of adjustment and doesn't complete the relay ground path with shifter in park position, it will complete that path with shifter in neutral position.