No ACL and less than 400 hp, sell me on a clutch

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I8NEMO

I8NEMO

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Well, reading several posts in here ive already learned some clutch dos and don'ts. My clutch experience includes factory style on my Road Runner as a kid, and the McCleod something something behind the small block in my 73 Land Cruiser. That's it. The LandCruiser also has factory hydraulic master/ slave. Ive got no left acl ( again)and was a knee replacement candidate 6 years ago, I'm still gettin around on what I was born with, and been Mountain Biking the last 12 years to keep things lubed. Driving the Toyota around does get to the knee due to load at flexion ( there ain't much leg room and im 6'4").

What's your two cents on a clutch for my 68 Notch?
Variables:
Before I tore this car down, I drove it albeit not for hours on end, in its stock format, that was 6 plus years ago.
Ive ditched the 318 for a fresh '69 340 x head, mopar high rise, Holley 2xpumpr, Doug's Headers and a fresh 4spd. Im guessing im in the 360 to 370 HP range. Ive not selected gears yet. Car is for street and fun, no track plans. Rebuilding the pedal assembly was one of the first small parts jobs I did, see pics. Raw external steel parts are clear coated including spring. This was my first exposure to an over center spring, a pretty cool little piece of engineering, and not a cake walk to get on and off! I'd like to leave the spring on/ alone. What's a decent 3 finger clutch? What are the main advantages/ disadvantages of finger vs diaphragm types?
Thanks!

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I would change to a diaphragm type clutch. Their design has come a very long way. The good ones, anyway. That will be MUCH easier on your whole leg and hip as they are a lot easier to operate. Of course they require the large over center spring to be removed, but that's a plus. Look at good quality clutches from Hayes, Zoom and the like. I believe Zoom is still made in the USA.
 
1...seriously consider an automatic

2....Do a search on ways to power boost the clutch. I started to do this some years back and have forgotten. Seems to me you could use a small hydroboost unit, a remote hdravac or even a small brake booster. Also seems to me I saw somethiing about electric driven booster units.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I would change to a diaphragm type clutch. Their design has come a very long way. The good ones, anyway. That will be MUCH easier on your whole leg and hip as they are a lot easier to operate. Of course they require the large over center spring to be removed, but that's a plus. Look at good quality clutches from Hayes, Zoom and the like. I believe Zoom is still made in the USA.
Click to expand...
Thanks Rusty, man your quick!
 
Ok this is going to be WAY out there but...

What about a rod with a T handle on the end and a guide under the dash and attached to the clutch pedal.

OR

Get a hand pull e brake like you see on newer cars in the center console. Mount it between seat and rocker. Pull up and clutch is disengaged. Heck keep the ratchet button so you can keep the clutch disengaged while at a tragic light!

Look for companies that retrofit cars for the disabled.
 
Dana67Dart said:
Ok this is going to be WAY out there but...

What about a rod with a T handle on the end and a guide under the dash and attached to the clutch pedal.

OR

Get a hand pull e brake like you see on newer cars in the center console. Mount it between seat and rocker. Pull up and clutch is disengaged. Heck keep the ratchet button so you can keep the clutch disengaged while at a tragic light!

Look for companies that retrofit cars for the disabled.
Click to expand...

Interesting thoughts! He'd need three hands, though. Unless I'm missing something.
 
Hydraulic clutch.

A little expensive to do the conversion, but once installed you can pretty much make your pedal effort whatever you’d like. Same as picking a master cylinder bore for a brake system. You can size the bore on the clutch master cylinder so the pedal effort could be pretty light. You can change the pedal ratio when you’re setting up the conversion as well, just depends on how deep into it you want to go.
 
72bluNblu said:
Hydraulic clutch.

A little expensive to do the conversion, but once installed you can pretty much make your pedal effort whatever you’d like. Same as picking a master cylinder bore for a brake system. You can size the bore on the clutch master cylinder so the pedal effort could be pretty light. You can change the pedal ratio when you’re setting up the conversion as well, just depends on how deep into it you want to go.
Click to expand...

Yup they're sure nice. Only reason I didn't mention it was budget. You know how cheap I am. lol
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yup they're sure nice. Only reason I didn't mention it was budget. You know how cheap I am. lol
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I feel you!

I didn’t have much of a choice, the T56’s are pretty much all set up for hydraulic clutches and the bells that go with them don’t have provisions for a clutch fork or manual linkage.

Although I was able to use some factory parts because of that as well. It’s crazy what some of the aftermarket set ups cost. Of course, by the time I finished I had a good amount into mine too.

They may be expensive, but if that’s what it costs to keep a manual vs going automatic it might be worth it for the OP. I know it would be for me!
 
I like my McLeod Diaphragm clutch with stock linkage. Pretty light. I think for you Hydraulic is the only easy answer.

Coming from both parents who have had Knee replacements (both full replacements for my mom), get it done. The issue with waiting is the strain from a bad knee transfer to your hip, so then you need a knee and hip replacement. If you do it sooner too, more can be saved, as in the physical therapy after words is shorter. It was a full year each knee for my mom. Less than six months each for my dad who had a partial.
 
67Dart273 said:
1...seriously consider an automatic

2....Do a search on ways to power boost the clutch. I started to do this some years back and have forgotten. Seems to me you could use a small hydroboost unit, a remote hdravac or even a small brake booster. Also seems to me I saw somethiing about electric driven booster units.
Click to expand...
Great info, thanks!
 
72bluNblu said:
I feel you!

I didn’t have much of a choice, the T56’s are pretty much all set up for hydraulic clutches and the bells that go with them don’t have provisions for a clutch fork or manual linkage.

Although I was able to use some factory parts because of that as well. It’s crazy what some of the aftermarket set ups cost. Of course, by the time I finished I had a good amount into mine too.

They may be expensive, but if that’s what it costs to keep a manual vs going automatic it might be worth it for the OP. I know it would be for me!
Click to expand...
Definitely keeping the 4spd, It's good to know hydraulics/boost are an option
 
With the amount of Mountain Biking I'm able to do, I'm confident in keeping the 4 spd. Not having an ACL is really no big deal,(gotta be careful on stairs though) when I severed it back in 1990 I waited 5 years for the repair, just kept putting it off. The Cuda has more leg room than the Land Cruiser. In the LandCrusier, my knee joint is bent pretty good with pedal up and it's that force on the joint when bent that is uncomfortable. Driving the stock tired Cuda years ago I don't remember having any issues thanks to more leg room and a tired old clutch, my thinking is with a hotter motor I would need more of a performance clutch? So hypothetically lets say I begin a try it and see approach. I start with the least expensive semi performance clutch, what would that be? I don't know much about 3 finger clutches, I have seen some pretty messed up fingers in the past, is this because there are only 3 fingers/3 wear surfaces?
 
RustyRatRod said:
I would change to a diaphragm type clutch. Their design has come a very long way. The good ones, anyway. That will be MUCH easier on your whole leg and hip as they are a lot easier to operate. Of course they require the large over center spring to be removed, but that's a plus. Look at good quality clutches from Hayes, Zoom and the like. I believe Zoom is still made in the USA.
Click to expand...
The last Zoom I got was china crap.
On the phone several times with Zoom, the pressure plate would not release.
After the 5th time taking the trans in out, in two weeks.
I sent the pos back to Summit for a refund and put a centerforce diaphram in, no issues, I do like the ease of push on the clutch pedal.
 
I like my CenterForce diaphragm Pressure Plate. But I pulled the CF II disc out after a short time; It was just too harsh for street duty, for me.
According to my Eighth-Mile trap speed, my engine is making 430 hp. I am currently using factory 340 discs, but they have a limited lifespan. They like to crack the spring pockets and throw springs out.
And surprise surprise, I swapped out the 340 overcenter spring for a 318 spring, and the CenterForce is happy even past 7200 rpm.

And it shifts sooooooo easy.

what's ACL
 
While your pedal is out you might consider a new primary parking brake cable. Mine was a PITA to install up there.
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If you're staying with a 3 finger you might consider ..........
Hays 91-3004 Hays Street 450 Clutch Kit - Dodge (holley.com)

Check the finger height prior to install.
Align the bell.

They do offer a heavier set but sounds like you want to stay away from it.
 
If it hurts? Then an automatic is the solution. I personally believe that one does lose some of the classic car experience with an automatic? But that goes away fast with pain?
 
sireland67 said:
The last Zoom I got was china crap.
On the phone several times with Zoom, the pressure plate would not release.
After the 5th time taking the trans in out, in two weeks.
I sent the pos back to Summit for a refund and put a centerforce diaphram in, no issues, I do like the ease of push on the clutch pedal.
Click to expand...

I won't use zoom anymore !
 
The Centerforce II diaphragm clutch with the overcenter spring out is no easier to push in than a 3 finger with the overcenter spring in. I tried to leave my heavy spring in, and the pedal will not return. I have gone over the geometry and everything looks as it should. The hydraulic set up is supposed to be easier. American Powertrain has the kit, but their Mtsr cyl pressure hose fitting gets into the inner fenderwell, have to beat a dimple into it. Their are other cyls available so that you do not have to do that. You can delete the cyl from their kit. I have a groin issue from hernia surgerys and have been looking for an alternative for clutch linkage.
 
I am running a new Centerforce 11" diaphragm clutch. I believe it is a little easier to push vs Borg and Beck style. But not enough to make it "Night and day" Of course it's new. Thus like a new Borg and Beck? Grabbing great. And at only 425 HP? It will be very tough to judge reliability and longevity. But so far so good.
 
I would call RAM Clutches and talk to Mike. My direct, personal experience with his mopar replacement clutch/pp sets has been great. I dont care for the Hays/Zoom/etc 2800 lb pressure plates. 2400 or less IMO. 400hp in a 3600 lb car with street tires wont need a ton of clamping force to lock up. If you run a clutch with ceramic or sintered bronze/iron/whatever on the flywheel sode make sure it's a billet steel unit. The sintered bronze disc I have is tough on the flywheel.
 
AJ/FormS said:
I like my CenterForce diaphragm Pressure Plate. But I pulled the CF II disc out after a short time; It was just too harsh for street duty, for me.
According to my Eighth-Mile trap speed, my engine is making 430 hp. I am currently using factory 340 discs, but they have a limited lifespan. They like to crack the spring pockets and throw springs out.
And surprise surprise, I swapped out the 340 overcenter spring for a 318 spring, and the CenterForce is happy even past 7200 rpm.

And it shifts sooooooo easy.

what's ACL
Click to expand...
Good to know, and am learning yet another variable in that OC springs differ with engine? My car was factory 318 so, guess I have a 318 OC spring? Thanks for your input.
ACL is anterior cruciate ligament, it resides through the middle of the knee joint vertically, if memory serves
 
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