In need of a engine measurment

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J

JohnFM3

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My build just hit a brick wall.

I need the measurement from transmission surface to the steering link when steering is pointing straight.
 
What year? Wheel base in the front changed in relation to the motor in 67 IIRC>
 
I am trying to do a Jeep 4.0L build in a 69 Barracuda. I believe I need a Mustang 2 steering rack in front of ball joints as I dont believe the 4.0L oil pan will clear the OEM steering without notching into the firewall. And I think that will push the shifter too far back.

As such, I need a measurement from a slant six as that will give me a number to compare to against a Jeep 4.0 L with a rear sump area.

If I could get a measurement of a the front of a rear sump slant six to the transmission mating surface, that would be helpful.
 
on my 65 A /6 its about 4" from drop V8 center to trans flange. Cant help with the sump
 
pishta said:
on my 65 A /6 its about 4" from drop V8 center to trans flange. Cant help with the sump
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Let me clarify, I need from the back of the engine where the transmission bolts up to the engine to the steering link.
 
Pish gave the correct answer,..for an early A, but the '67 & up A's have the eng & trans between 1.5&2.0" further behind the frt wheels. So figure 6",...that is why headers often don't fit early A's, the front is ~2.5" narrower(T-bars, steer gear), & the "hole" for tubes has the pitman arm/centerlink backed into it by almost 2". You're not going to be able to use a rear-sump on anything but a tk/van, unless You build a pass-thru tube for the CL, or swap to frt.-mt. steering. Are there no auto mid-sump pans & pickups to fit that 4.0? Not that well versed in AMC, older 258 pans from concord/eagle/etc.?
 
My ‘64 also has about 4”. Not enough room for a rear sump. If Killer6 is right I suppose there wouldn’t be enough room on a ‘69 either. A front rack would be ideal but I’ve read on this forum that there are serious geometry issues involved with that.

If you did move the engine back, couldn’t you switch to a cable shift and be alright? Or modify the linkage? I was also considering a jeep motor, but I think the 4.0 is too long for an early engine bay, so I’d have to notch the firewall anyway. Anyway, if you start a build thread I’d love to check it out
 
The AX-15 transmission is a top mounted shifter. Direct attached.

If its 4 ft, then I may have more than enough room to keep the OEM steering linkage. I may need find a slant six k member for testing the linkage, if it work buy a QA1 version.
 
Ah, i assumed you’d run a torqueflite. Shifter location would obviously be important esp. with bench seats.

Just to be clear, in my car it’s a matter of inches between the trans and the steering linkage. Perhaps I misunderstood you.
 
ScamperTom said:
...in my car it’s a matter of inches between the trans and the steering linkage. Perhaps I misunderstood you.
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I had a V8 k member which put the linkage in-front of the sump only a few inches from the back side of the cross support of the K member. Roughly in the middle of the engine.
 
Maybe you aren't seeing the forest for the trees but have you checked the height of a 4.0? Just askin.

******
I'm probably not much help...
but ironically I have a Jeep Comanche pickup with a 4.0 and ax15. (Stored elsewhere for winter)
And a 64 Val with a 225. (Also stored elsewhere for winter)
And a 69 SB cuda. (On rotisserie so no suspension or engine)
And a 68 cuda with engine pulled because it's getting G3 hemi swapped.
Sorry, no help at all. If you need dimensions off a Subaru Forester, let me know.
 
KosmicKuda said:
Maybe you aren't seeing the forest for the trees but have you checked the height of a 4.0? Just askin.

******
I'm probably not much help...
but ironically I have a Jeep Comanche pickup with a 4.0 and ax15. (Stored elsewhere for winter)
And a 64 Val with a 225. (Also stored elsewhere for winter)
And a 69 SB cuda. (On rotisserie so no suspension or engine)
And a 68 cuda with engine pulled because it's getting G3 hemi swapped.
Sorry, no help at all. If you need dimensions off a Subaru Forester, let me know.
Click to expand...
There's a reason why they slanted the 6!
 
KosmicKuda said:
Maybe you aren't seeing the forest for the trees but have you checked the height of a 4.0? Just askin.
Click to expand...

toolmanmike said:
There's a reason why they slanted the 6!
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I to have Jeeps, 3 of them. Wife's 95 Jeep Wrangler (YJ), my 92 Wrangler (YJ), and a 97 Cherokee (XJ). All three lifted and trail ready with winches, 32' + tires, and recovery gear. That's the biggest reason I am doing this build. I can totally see the tree's and the forest (dont forget the rocks, I wheel in Wa state ~ thats the norm), which is why I am asking the questions.

I have a AJE suspension system which I have been rebuilding due to poor craftsmanship. (I know, I was warned prior to buying) I am asking about the linkage as I am considering if I can fit the rear sump oil pan of the 4.0 behind the steering linkage. If I can not clear the linkage, then I have to run the Mustang 2 steering rack (Maybe buy a Magnaforce k member and LCA) and this K member. Other wise I would take my losses and goto QA1, grab a new k member which uses a OEM style lower control arm, steering box, and steering linkage and move forward. I already have new coil-overs, HDK upgraded upper control arms, and HDK coil-over hoops. The big loss would be the really well done (re designed) lower control arms at $1500.

As too the statement about the height of the slant six, if you look at my build thread on this car you will see I got the 4.0 in the engine bay with 5 inches of clearance below the hood, and about 2.5 inch exposed below the OEM K member. The tubular K member sits 3 in lower than the OEM which will protect the oil pan. I am building with the Jeep engine harness. As such I will have one of the most easiest multi port fuel injection engines ever. The jeep shop near me can take a wrangler harness and build it as a stand alone system for $500. So this will be all OEM Jeep making repair-ability simple. Think how it will look to take a 69 Barracuda to the Jeep dealership for maintenance work... lol
 
BTW for those interested. Both the Slant Six and the Jeep 4.0l are 32 in long from bell face (rear) to front of dampener pulley.
 
I want to add that Hemi Denny from HDK has been a huge help to me on this project. And if I do have to replace, I am definitely considering his mustang 2 steering rack kit as it would match the rest of the parts I already have of his. I already have the steering rack and coil-overs from the AJE kit. Really the additional cost of buying parts to replace a bad judgement is the hardest part of going that route.

I also really love the lower control arms I had built for the kit I have now. With a Mopar Performance M cut in them.
 
JohnFM3 said:
I want to add that Hemi Denny from HDK has been a huge help to me on this project. And if I do have to replace, I am definitely considering his mustang 2 steering rack kit as it would match the rest of the parts I already have of his. I already have the steering rack and coil-overs from the AJE kit. Really the additional cost of buying parts to replace a bad judgement is the hardest part of going that route.

I also really love the lower control arms I had built for the kit I have now. With a Mopar Performance M cut in them.
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At the moment, I have an older 258 head, & an HO 4.0L head. At one time both complete engines were populating My "garden", so to speak, & the bottom ends had to go. IIRC, the rear sump on that was not very long front to back, but You want to keep the linkage in front of the sump,... & thats too tight as is. However, if You found the exact proximity & area/depth of interference, You may be able to cut away that section of the pan with a vertical radius on both sides, & use a piece of exhaust tubing of equal diameter to weld in & form a cove to clear the linkage. Install engine with the wheels turned to give wiggle room. Just a thought....good luck..
 
Killer6 said:
....You may be able to cut away that section of the pan with a vertical radius on both sides, & use a piece of exhaust tubing of equal diameter to weld in & form a cove to clear the linkage. Install engine with the wheels turned to give wiggle room. Just a thought....good luck..
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Ok, I have to be honest, I hadnt considered that. And I have seen custom pans like that used in the past. That may be a alternative solution to my problem.

thanks,
John
 
Ok i got some actual measurements for you, though unfortunately not from a barracuda.

My ‘64 valiant (engine out) has 5 1/2” from the steering link to the firewall, and 11” from the link to the flange where the firewall meets the tunnel.

My ‘72 scamp has 5” from the steering link to the transmission. Hope this helps.
 
ScamperTom said:
Ok i got some actual measurements for you, though unfortunately not from a barracuda.

My ‘64 valiant (engine out) has 5 1/2” from the steering link to the firewall, and 11” from the link to the flange where the firewall meets the tunnel.

My ‘72 scamp has 5” from the steering link to the transmission. Hope this helps.
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That a big help. I found 1 picture of my original K-Member in the car. That puts the picture in perspective. There is no way to continue my build with out a mustang steering rack in-front of the center line of the wheels. We will see where this takes me. Thanks ~ John
 
JohnFM3 said:
That a big help. I found 1 picture of my original K-Member in the car. That puts the picture in perspective. There is no way to continue my build with out a mustang steering rack in-front of the center line of the wheels. We will see where this takes me. Thanks ~ John
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That would seem to be ideal. Would you just swap the spindles side to side or go completely custom to fit your current setup? Alternately, the off-road guys weld and modify drag links all the time, so modifying it to curve in front of or below the oil pan might not be out of the question.
 
ScamperTom said:
That would seem to be ideal. Would you just swap the spindles side to side or go completely custom to fit your current setup? Alternately, the off-road guys weld and modify drag links all the time, so modifying it to curve in front of or below the oil pan might not be out of the question.
Click to expand...

Denny @ HDK has been a huge help in cleaning up a AJE suspension kit I bought. I have a full tubed setup with steering rack, but its been plague with problems. The kit I have uses aluminum blocks to allow a forward facing tie rod location on the factory knuckles. There is a possibility of steering abnormalities which may require my purchasing a replacement k-member, lower control arms, and Mustang 2 spindles from HDK. Thats roughly another $2K on top of the almost $5k I have spent to get this far. So much of the kit I bought has been rebuilt or replaced, that I really shouldnt have bought the kit at all. The only thing I will have retained from the original purchase would be the rack... :-(
 
JohnFM3 said:
Denny @ HDK has been a huge help in cleaning up a AJE suspension kit I bought. I have a full tubed setup with steering rack, but its been plague with problems. The kit I have uses aluminum blocks to allow a forward facing tie rod location on the factory knuckles. There is a possibility of steering abnormalities which may require my purchasing a replacement k-member, lower control arms, and Mustang 2 spindles from HDK. Thats roughly another $2K on top of the almost $5k I have spent to get this far. So much of the kit I bought has been rebuilt or replaced, that I really shouldnt have bought the kit at all. The only thing I will have retained from the original purchase would be the rack... :-(
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What a nightmare that sounds like. I guess the hdk kit is pretty much a full mustang II setup adapted to the mopar framerails? The factory suspension isn’t bad but adapting a steering rack to it sounds difficult.
 
ScamperTom said:
What a nightmare that sounds like. I guess the hdk kit is pretty much a full mustang II setup adapted to the mopar framerails? The factory suspension isn’t bad but adapting a steering rack to it sounds difficult.
Click to expand...

yeah, the kit I bought was a bad deal. I am trying t salvage as much as I can to cut my losses. The HDK parts will allow me to move forward with a full mustang II front end, but again its another rough $2k which I dont have. I have bought the upper parts of it to replace the parts I have due to interference reasons. And the HDK upper coil over mounts are a much better designed.

I had another set of lower control arms (shown below) built based on the original set for $1500.

20200810_131052_hdr-jpg.jpg


I really like how they turned out and I hope to be able to keep them. After mock up, I found they need each joint arm lengthen another 1.5 inches.

All in all, I am hoping once done it will turn out great.


My build thread. As of now, 11 pages of hardly no movement and lots of research.
Jeep 4.0 in 69 Barracuda
 
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