347 vs. 351 in 69 Mustang

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cpearce

cpearce

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Hello everyone,

A good friend of mine wishes to give his beautiful 69 Mustang a shot of steroids. Currently the car is a 302 4 speed, engine is a little bit tired. Discussions about a 347 stroker combo, or a 351 Windsor swap have been going on in the garage. My knowledge of Ford small blocks is slim, from what I have gathered though swapping to a 351 will require different oil pan, intake, and distributor.

I guess ultimately he is trying to weigh the cost difference of refreshing a roller block 351 Windsor engine, including necessary swap pieces, or a stroker package for the 302/347 deal. One thing he was unsure of, can his serpentine belt and ac setup on his 302 be installed on a 351, or due to deck heights, are all the brackets different? Any other pros vs cons for these options?

End goal is a nice driver friendly 400 hp setup.

Thanks for any help, I am trying to help a friend but really have little to no knowledge on the Ford small blocks. Any insight or info is welcomed and appreciated.
 
Stroke the 351. Better yet, tell him to come buy my 351C 4V engine.
 
351 :).. 347 tend to come apart when pushed to hard.. think it's a little extreme for the 302 block. Maybe 331 way to go. 351 stroked (393) very nice torque engine, but a 351 can be a good street engine without stroker kit also. Think the weight difference can be overcome without the radical 347 long stroke.IMHO.
 
has he considered an LS swap?


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cpearce said:
Hello everyone,

A good friend of mine wishes to give his beautiful 69 Mustang a shot of steroids. Currently the car is a 302 4 speed, engine is a little bit tired. Discussions about a 347 stroker combo, or a 351 Windsor swap have been going on in the garage. My knowledge of Ford small blocks is slim, from what I have gathered though swapping to a 351 will require different oil pan, intake, and distributor.

I guess ultimately he is trying to weigh the cost difference of refreshing a roller block 351 Windsor engine, including necessary swap pieces, or a stroker package for the 302/347 deal. One thing he was unsure of, can his serpentine belt and ac setup on his 302 be installed on a 351, or due to deck heights, are all the brackets different? Any other pros vs cons for these options?

End goal is a nice driver friendly 400 hp setup.

Thanks for any help, I am trying to help a friend but really have little to no knowledge on the Ford small blocks. Any insight or info is welcomed and appreciated.
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He said F**D :poke: Cleveland's are the sh*t :)
 
From a cost standpoint stroking his 302 (to whatever size) with some good heads and a solid flat tappet cam he could meet his goal without going too radical.I wouldn't waste anytime with factory iron heads.

A good running 351 is nice as well.Just depends on the cost.
 
496 polara said:
From a cost standpoint stroking his 302 (to whatever size) with some good heads and a solid flat tappet cam he could meet his goal without going too radical.I wouldn't waste anytime with factory iron heads.

A good running 351 is nice as well.Just depends on the cost.
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Yes, that is what we are trying to determine. Trying to judge the retrofit cost to go 351, vs stroker cost of 347. With the 351 comes the added weight, and off course added size within engine compartment for headers and plug changes. We are trying to find the balance between the pros and cons of either setup.
 
351w deck height is 9.5 inches, 302 is 9 inches, I don't think there would be any issues with the accessories, but I haven't actually done it. I have had plenty of both engines and I would probably go with the 351. Yes the initial expense might be a bit more, but I believe it is worth it in the long run.
 
Tooljunkie said:
@Johnny Mac
May or may not want to share some knowledge.
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I've become pretty familiar with fords, with the amount of them that we sell. The 302 stroked to a 347, and the 351 stroked to a 408, are both viable options. the 351 is taller, as many have noted, and if he has headers already, those will need changed from a 302 deck engine, to a 351 deck engine, as well as intake, and front accessory brackets. so budget depending, that may weight on the decision.

Now. the "347's come apart" wives tail, is just that. this isn't 1976 anymore, where certain aftermarket offerings and combo's are problematic. Anything can be built right, or wrong. at BluePrint, we special design our pistons to combat issues that plagued those early strokers from 20-30 years ago. we wouldn't be building them if we didn't have a way to do it properly.

So if you're considering a BLUEPRINT...then the 347 should be on the table. If you're wanting to build yourself, my same comment of "you'll have more money in machine work and parts than you will in a dyno'd, warrantied, BluePrint" I believe to be true.

Blank canvas....assuming you're not reusing a high dollar set of headers, then the 408 will make more HP and torque for obvious reasons vs a 302 deck. our lead time is probably less on a 408 also.

Feel free to give us a call! if you're doing your own thing, just be sure to REALLY sit down and add up the cost, and labor, etc...I think we're pretty hard to beat.
 
Johnny Mac said:
I've become pretty familiar with fords, with the amount of them that we sell. The 302 stroked to a 347, and the 351 stroked to a 408, are both viable options. the 351 is taller, as many have noted, and if he has headers already, those will need changed from a 302 deck engine, to a 351 deck engine, as well as intake, and front accessory brackets. so budget depending, that may weight on the decision.

Now. the "347's come apart" wives tail, is just that. this isn't 1976 anymore, where certain aftermarket offerings and combo's are problematic. Anything can be built right, or wrong. at BluePrint, we special design our pistons to combat issues that plagued those early strokers from 20-30 years ago. we wouldn't be building them if we didn't have a way to do it properly.

So if you're considering a BLUEPRINT...then the 347 should be on the table. If you're wanting to build yourself, my same comment of "you'll have more money in machine work and parts than you will in a dyno'd, warrantied, BluePrint" I believe to be true.

Blank canvas....assuming you're not reusing a high dollar set of headers, then the 408 will make more HP and torque for obvious reasons vs a 302 deck. our lead time is probably less on a 408 also.

Feel free to give us a call! if you're doing your own thing, just be sure to REALLY sit down and add up the cost, and labor, etc...I think we're pretty hard to beat.
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Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. I know a LOT of local Ford guys and they all rave about the power a "little" 347 can make. I've seen some really quick ones.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. I know a LOT of local Ford guys and they all rave about the power a "little" 347 can make. I've seen some really quick ones.
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We'll have our own BluePrint ford, proprietary engine block, like we do on the GM stuff already. Then 302 deck engines will be 365 cid. But...351's will go to 427+
 
Johnny Mac said:
We'll have our own BluePrint ford, proprietary engine block, like we do on the GM stuff already. Then 302 deck engines will be 365 cid. But...351's will go to 427+
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Then yall are gonna cast new slant six blocks. Right?!?!?!?
 
The 351w is a real favorite of mine, I've beaten on a few them and they have not disappointed or let me down. If I'm not mistaken the Chevy LS cylinder head owes a good bit of it's design to the Ford Windsor head.
I'm in something of a similar situation to the op, my Bronco is pushing 180k miles, still running good, but I know it's probably getting a bit tired. It was born with a 302, and I have another complete 302 under my bench, but I would like a little more grunt. I have also been thinking about dropping in a Coyote 5.0 and a 6 speed auto trans, but not sure if I want to go that far with it. I'm not looking for anything wild, it's my daily driver and I only put 50 to 60 miles a week typically. Reliability is the most important factor.
 
Thanks everyone for the responses. Looks like it will be a fair chunk of change to swap to the 351 due to parts that require changing. Options at this point are a warmed up 302, or a small stroker, either 331, or 347.
 
cpearce said:
Thanks everyone for the responses. Looks like it will be a fair chunk of change to swap to the 351 due to parts that require changing. Options at this point are a warmed up 302, or a small stroker, either 331, or 347.
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I have a VERY nice 1999 5.0 GT40-P engine I am not going to use since I sold the project it was going in. It is a fresh pretty warm build. I would make a really good deal on it. It is complete intake to oil pan.
 
Having done the 351W to '66 Ranchero where a 289 and 4spd once resided. The Ranchero was not equipped with power brakes or steering so there was no clearance issues from that. The C4 fit the 4 spd tunnel without issues. Motor mounts were exactly the same. Headers were the only problem I encountered, the extra deck height had the collectors pretty much flush up against the firewall :soapbox:. Good parts for the 351W weren't very available at the time. It was reliable and ran okay but it wasn't the animalistic 289 I had in there previously. The 351W heads are supposed to be an improvement over the 289/302 heads, but they are open chamber whereas the the 302 were closed chamber and require appropriate pistons or head milling to get the compression back in event of a head swap.
 
400 hp outta a 302 ant but 1.3 hp per cubic inch! im no ford fan but the 5.0 fox body of the 80s an 90s proved 400+ was easy nuff to do without stroking! your friend be lotta money ahead building the 5.0 even if he dose a stroker....he already got it, its there, erry thing already fits bolts and all...
 
dirty white boy said:
400 hp outta a 302 ant but 1.3 hp per cubic inch! im no ford fan but the 5.0 fox body of the 80s an 90s proved 400+ was easy nuff to do without stroking! your friend be lotta money ahead building the 5.0 even if he dose a stroker....he already got it, its there, erry thing already fits bolts and all...
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3 1/4" stroke and 4" bore .. Sign me up! :steering:
 
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