What's The Deal With The Mopar Mini Starters?

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RustyRatRod

RustyRatRod

I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday.
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Ok, I THOUGHT ( dangerous, I know) the Mopar mini starter such as for a 92 Dakota worked on all things Mopar. I found out the other day they do not. My friend Matt has a 68 Dodge D100 2WD, 318, 727. His starter began intermittently not cranking. So he pulled it in his shop and ordered another one. Store sent him the mini starter. He stuck it on. It spun just fine but the bendix did not throw the gear out far enough to engage the ring gear on the converter. He pulled it off and noticed not only did the gear have about a 1/2" long "nub" on the end, but also when pried out, it did not travel all the way to the end of the inside of the nose. The old big style's gear was flat on the end and it did travel all the way to the end of the inside of the nose. Both starters were the exact same dimensions from the bolt bosses to the end of the nose. Matt called me to see if I had a good old style big started and of course I did and he put that on and it's worked fine. So what's the deal?
 
Hmm that's odd.
I just put one on my 77 360 works like a charm. Minus the connections being on the wrong side that was a beeoch to hook them up. But now it cranks great. I used one for a 98 ram. I think they are all the same. Im wondering if its something in the 68 being different?
 
Rob the only glitch I'm aware of is the clocking and terminals on some. I'd be more akin to thinking that "some rebuilder" got the wrong or defective parts in the mix
 
I have never run into that issue, I have put the mini starters on pretty much everything without issue.
 
67Dart273 said:
Rob the only glitch I'm aware of is the clocking and terminals on some. I'd be more akin to thinking that "some rebuilder" got the wrong or defective parts in the mix
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I'm not sure about that. I have a mini starter too and mine is the exact same way.
 
Only problem I had is they hit my header tube the stock starter did not ? WTF
 
The first mini starter I ever got hold of had that protrusion on the nose.

After grinding it off it worked fine.

I posted about it on FxBO but several folks basically said I didn't know what I was talking about.

To them I now just wannna' say- ptptptptptptptptp, and na na na naaaaa na!!
 
RustyRatRod said:
I have too through the years. Never had an issue.
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YY1 said:
The first mini starter I ever got hold of had that protrusion on the nose.

After grinding it off it worked fine.

I posted about it on FxBO but several folks basically said I didn't know what I was talking about.

To them I now just wannna' say- ptptptptptptptptp, and na na na naaaaa na!!
Click to expand...

Yup, I know for fact there are at least 2 different designs of nose.
One supported by a socket hole for the nose in the bell housing and one that isn’t.
Unfortunately I don’t have any specific info on what only fits what.
 
Ours hit the block. Ground the nose carefully and it works like a champ.

We put it in front of a 904. Is there a difference when attaching to something later? I realize the bolt pattern is the smame for the engines, but is it possible the starters are "rotated' slightly on the later transmissions? I have a 904 and a 46RH lying next to one anothter at home so I'll look later. just a thought.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Ok, I THOUGHT ( dangerous, I know) the Mopar mini starter such as for a 92 Dakota worked on all things Mopar. I found out the other day they do not. My friend Matt has a 68 Dodge D100 2WD, 318, 727. His starter began intermittently not cranking. So he pulled it in his shop and ordered another one. Store sent him the mini starter. He stuck it on. It spun just fine but the bendix did not throw the gear out far enough to engage the ring gear on the converter. He pulled it off and noticed not only did the gear have about a 1/2" long "nub" on the end, but also when pried out, it did not travel all the way to the end of the inside of the nose. The old big style's gear was flat on the end and it did travel all the way to the end of the inside of the nose. Both starters were the exact same dimensions from the bolt bosses to the end of the nose. Matt called me to see if I had a good old style big started and of course I did and he put that on and it's worked fine. So what's the deal?
Click to expand...
Any chance he took a picture of the starter? Curious to see the nose cone area.
What we are calling mini starter is just the Nippondenso based starter, and there are lots of different versions for all the different vehicles that originally used them. Dodge themselves had a few versions because of the V10 engine and I think the 4.7 engine, as well all the 3.9, 5.2 and 5.9 based engines. V10 does not have a covered nose cone, I don't think.
I have not personally run into this fit issue yet.
 
brian6pac said:
Only problem I had is they hit my header tube the stock starter did not ? WTF
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Same here. Ive got a brand new mopar performace mini i cant use because it interferes with my ancient hookers. The big old gear reduction fits fine, and i can even get it in or out without moving the header.
 
Bobzilla said:
Any chance he took a picture of the starter? Curious to see the nose cone area.
What we are calling mini starter is just the Nippondenso based starter, and there are lots of different versions for all the different vehicles that originally used them. Dodge themselves had a few versions because of the V10 engine and I think the 4.7 engine, as well all the 3.9, 5.2 and 5.9 based engines. V10 does not have a covered nose cone, I don't think.
I have not personally run into this fit issue yet.
Click to expand...

I can get a picture of mine. It's exactly the same as the one he had.
 
dartfreak75 said:
Hmm that's odd.
I just put one on my 77 360 works like a charm. Minus the connections being on the wrong side that was a beeoch to hook them up. But now it cranks great. I used one for a 98 ram. I think they are all the same. Im wondering if its something in the 68 being different?
Click to expand...
I need to install one on my 77 Powerwagon 886 , this past winter could have used it one moring when it was 14° those have to be better and gearing better versus those older massive starters
 
RustyRatRod said:
Ok, I THOUGHT ( dangerous, I know) the Mopar mini starter such as for a 92 Dakota worked on all things Mopar. I found out the other day they do not. My friend Matt has a 68 Dodge D100 2WD, 318, 727. His starter began intermittently not cranking. So he pulled it in his shop and ordered another one. Store sent him the mini starter. He stuck it on. It spun just fine but the bendix did not throw the gear out far enough to engage the ring gear on the converter. He pulled it off and noticed not only did the gear have about a 1/2" long "nub" on the end, but also when pried out, it did not travel all the way to the end of the inside of the nose. The old big style's gear was flat on the end and it did travel all the way to the end of the inside of the nose. Both starters were the exact same dimensions from the bolt bosses to the end of the nose. Matt called me to see if I had a good old style big started and of course I did and he put that on and it's worked fine. So what's the deal?
Click to expand...
the problem with the "mini " starters is they will quit with out warring its better to ger the stock starter rebuilt its hard to find a shop that can do that i have one out be me that rebuilds them he is extreamly good he has allways did mine i have a 72 440 in a 72 new yorker . i swear by him
 
Martin Koiryohann said:
the problem with the "mini " starters is they will quit with out warring its better to ger the stock starter rebuilt its hard to find a shop that can do that i have one out be me that rebuilds them he is extreamly good he has allways did mine i have a 72 440 in a 72 new yorker . i swear by him
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I just do it myself. Not like it's hard to do. Finding the parts can be a challenge.
 
1Badcolt said:
I need to install one on my 77 Powerwagon 886 , this past winter could have used it one moring when it was 14° those have to be better and gearing better versus those older massive starters
Click to expand...
You won't be disappointed it cranks over so much easier and faster now and im on the plus side of 10.5:1
 
Martin Koiryohann said:
the problem with the "mini " starters is they will quit with out warring its better to ger the stock starter rebuilt its hard to find a shop that can do that i have one out be me that rebuilds them he is extreamly good he has allways did mine i have a 72 440 in a 72 new yorker . i swear by him
Click to expand...
Can't be any worse that thr originals iv had three (now four) originals just die without warning not to mention the slow cranking makes it hard to start in the winter.
 
As I always say "your car, your money, do what you like" but I would never use a stock factory old school starter UNLESS it was some resto or something but since I don't have and don't intend to have any restored cars I don't see it ever happening. The stock/factory starters do fail and good luck finding one locally. However, you can use one out of a late 80's Dodge pickup or even a V8 Dakota and be able to get one at any local parts store pretty much that day.
 
dartfreak75 said:
Can't be any worse that thr originals iv had three (now four) originals just die without warning not to mention the slow cranking makes it hard to start in the winter.
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Amen on that I learned the hard way
this past christmas was at NC home and 14 ° starter is in fine condition but it did not want to crank at those temps !
Blew my muffler up once it hit
Made a nice echo noise in the valley
 
I've only used ones from full size magnum trucks and Van's. There is a terminal extension to use and the wire ends of the new style should be retained
Jeeps and the small 5 speed stuff doesn't work.
 
I still lile the original starter, it started engines back then, they will now, but it won't fit with my tti headers, The dakota that's in now fots and works fine, is close to headers, don't know what it came from, was already in there. Do use a DEI heat sheild.
 
I was thinking about mini startering my 70 Swinger 340 but Ill tell ya, if the engine fires right over, the old style sounds neat ,like in the movies, its that classic Mopar start sound. if it long cranks it doesn't sound so neat the car has to fire right up, that's the sound I like. Where you hear the gear reduction starter for a second and that's it.
 
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