When is a Car "Level" - Home Front End Alignment

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RabidScott

RabidScott

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This is probably a stupid question but I wanna know when a Mopar is considered "level".

Can I just go off the rocker? IE; if it is level on the rockers then is the car is considered level?

Again; Seems like a stupid question but I'm doing a home front end alignment in less than perfect conditions and want to get it as close as possible.
 
I would say yes, when rocker is level. That being said, some prefer front slightly lower than the rear. You need to have front wheels on some form of slip plates,and make sure the terrain you are working on is also level.
Settle vehicle after adjustment before you remeasure.
 
There is nothing too difficult about a front end alignment you can buy a handful of tools and successfully do it at home.

As to "level"

The factory service manual gives dimensions from ground to chassis locations.

That will give you the factory "level"

Really set your ride height, set your stance then align from there.
 
RabidScott said:
This is probably a stupid question but I wanna know when a Mopar is considered "level".

Can I just go off the rocker? IE; if it is level on the rockers then is the car is considered level?

Again; Seems like a stupid question but I'm doing a home front end alignment in less than perfect conditions and want to get it as close as possible.
Click to expand...

Depends on what you're going for. If you're looking for the factory ride height specs, then you need to measure like the factory did. The "V&L" carline applies to A-bodies
factoryalignspecs.jpg


That said, you don't need to use the factory ride height specs (especially if you're not running factory stock suspension). I'd argue that you don't even want the factory ride height for best handling, but that also depends on other changes to the suspension.

If all you're looking for is the car to be at the ride height you want and level side to side, the rockers are plenty good enough. You may also want to consider adding weight to the driver's seat, because the height empty and the height with a driver will not be the same. That will also change the static alignment.

And of course, if you're using radial tires, don't use the factory alignment specs either, start with the SKOSH chart. The ride height and your suspension set up may make some of these numbers unattainable though.
alignment-specifications-jpg-221767-jpg-jpg-jpg-jpg.jpg


toolmanmike said:
Home and front end alignment don't belong in the same sentence.
Click to expand...

Bullshit. Nothing could be further from the truth. These cars can be pretty easily aligned to a high degree of accuracy with some pretty simple tools and a little practice.

And the fancy alignment racks at the modern tire shop are pretty much useless, because the majority of those shops will put the car "in the computer", and get back the factory specs. Which are completely wrong for radial tires. And that assumes the tech will have the foggiest idea of what to do with an old mopar, which I can say many of them will not. I bought my own alignment gear and do all of my alignments at home, because quite frankly I haven't run into an alignment tech in years that I trusted to turn wrenches on the suspension I run on my Mopars. Maybe if all there was to adjust was the camber bolts. But with adjustable UCA's, adjustable strut rods, and numerous modified and aftermarket parts most shops don't even want to touch my car, let alone align it to custom specs.
 
The car is considered level when it meets whatever standards are set forth in the factory service manual for your car. There are specs front and back. When those specs vary from the service manual, you have a custom ride height and or alignment.
 
72bluNblu said:
Depends on what you're going for. If you're looking for the factory ride height specs, then you need to measure like the factory did. The "V&L" carline applies to A-bodies
View attachment 1715719109

That said, you don't need to use the factory ride height specs (especially if you're not running factory stock suspension). I'd argue that you don't even want the factory ride height for best handling, but that also depends on other changes to the suspension.

If all you're looking for is the car to be at the ride height you want and level side to side, the rockers are plenty good enough. You may also want to consider adding weight to the driver's seat, because the height empty and the height with a driver will not be the same. That will also change the static alignment.

And of course, if you're using radial tires, don't use the factory alignment specs either, start with the SKOSH chart. The ride height and your suspension set up may make some of these numbers unattainable though.
View attachment 1715719117



Bullshit. Nothing could be further from the truth. These cars can be pretty easily aligned to a high degree of accuracy with some pretty simple tools and a little practice.

And the fancy alignment racks at the modern tire shop are pretty much useless, because the majority of those shops will put the car "in the computer", and get back the factory specs. Which are completely wrong for radial tires. And that assumes the tech will have the foggiest idea of what to do with an old mopar, which I can say many of them will not. I bought my own alignment gear and do all of my alignments at home, because quite frankly I haven't run into an alignment tech in years that I trusted to turn wrenches on the suspension I run on my Mopars. Maybe if all there was to adjust was the camber bolts. But with adjustable UCA's, adjustable strut rods, and numerous modified and aftermarket parts most shops don't even want to touch my car, let alone align it to custom specs.
Click to expand...
What kind of equipment do you own?
 
72bluNblu said:
Depends on what you're going for. If you're looking for the factory ride height specs, then you need to measure like the factory did. The "V&L" carline applies to A-bodies
View attachment 1715719109

That said, you don't need to use the factory ride height specs (especially if you're not running factory stock suspension). I'd argue that you don't even want the factory ride height for best handling, but that also depends on other changes to the suspension.

If all you're looking for is the car to be at the ride height you want and level side to side, the rockers are plenty good enough. You may also want to consider adding weight to the driver's seat, because the height empty and the height with a driver will not be the same. That will also change the static alignment.

And of course, if you're using radial tires, don't use the factory alignment specs either, start with the SKOSH chart. The ride height and your suspension set up may make some of these numbers unattainable though.
View attachment 1715719117



Bullshit. Nothing could be further from the truth. These cars can be pretty easily aligned to a high degree of accuracy with some pretty simple tools and a little practice.

And the fancy alignment racks at the modern tire shop are pretty much useless, because the majority of those shops will put the car "in the computer", and get back the factory specs. Which are completely wrong for radial tires. And that assumes the tech will have the foggiest idea of what to do with an old mopar, which I can say many of them will not. I bought my own alignment gear and do all of my alignments at home, because quite frankly I haven't run into an alignment tech in years that I trusted to turn wrenches on the suspension I run on my Mopars. Maybe if all there was to adjust was the camber bolts. But with adjustable UCA's, adjustable strut rods, and numerous modified and aftermarket parts most shops don't even want to touch my car, let alone align it to custom specs.
Click to expand...
And the op asked about level and then mentioned home alignment and then less than ideal conditions. That's why I said what I did. I still stand by my statement. There's a lot wrong in the original post. You might have some good equipment and the know how but it didn't look like the op is there.
 
I do mine at home also and never have a problem. The best trick I have found is four grease old linoleum square tiles. Grease the middle of two. Jack a tire up and slip it under the contact point of the tire with the concrete. Do the other side the same and jostle the bejesus out of it to get her to settle. She will slip and slide and come into harmony with the world. Attach my alignment tools, start measuring and make some adjustments.
 
The V and L carline does not apply to all A Bodies, Barracudas sit lower. I'm away from home right now so I can't check my Service Manual but the Barracuda is 1 3/8" + or - 1/8" if my memory serves me correct. I just set mine a month ago. The Valiant sits higher.
 
RustyRatRod said:
The car is considered level when it meets whatever standards are set forth in the factory service manual for your car. There are specs front and back. When those specs vary from the service manual, you have a custom ride height and or alignment.
Click to expand...

Right. But unless you happen to be running bias ply tires, you need a custom alignment. Because the factory specs are for bias ply's, and are wrong for radials. The same actually applies for the ride height, although that changes other things.

toolmanmike said:
What kind of equipment do you own?
Click to expand...

A SPC Fastrax caster camber gauge, a set of turn plates I bought second hand for the front, a set of slip plates for the rear, and a set of toe plates to more accurately set the toe.

Fastrax gauge, get the one that fits your range of rims (this one is for 13-17 wheels) SPC Performance 91000 SPC Performance FasTrax Camber Caster Gauges | Summit Racing

Toe Plates JOES Racing Products 32600 JOES Racing Products Economy Toe Plates | Summit Racing

Turn plates- not the kind I have, but an affordable option One Pair Aluminum Turntable Wheel Alignment 360° Rotating Turn Plate Table 4 Ton | eBay

My set is more like this, and you can pick great ones up used Hunter RL vehicle alignment turn plates slip plates 14" x 14" | eBay

toolmanmike said:
And the op asked about level and then mentioned home alignment and then less than ideal conditions. That's why I said what I did. I still stand by my statement. There's a lot wrong in the original post. You might have some good equipment and the know how but it didn't look like the op is there.
Click to expand...

He also doesn't mention his plans or the context, he may just be trying to get it close enough to get to an alignment shop. Regardless, a rough alignment can be done easily at home with basic tools. Toe is actually the most important tire wearing setting, and it's the easiest to set.

Blind Squirrel said:
I do mine at home also and never have a problem. The best trick I have found is four grease old linoleum square tiles. Grease the middle of two. Jack a tire up and slip it under the contact point of the tire with the concrete. Do the other side the same and jostle the bejesus out of it to get her to settle. She will slip and slide and come into harmony with the world. Attach my alignment tools, start measuring and make some adjustments.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Not ideal, but with practice you can actually do a pretty decent alignment like this.

69cudaownr said:
The V and L carline does not apply to all A Bodies, Barracudas sit lower. I'm away from home right now so I can't check my Service Manual but the Barracuda is 1 3/8" + or - 1/8" if my memory serves me correct. I just set mine a month ago. The Valiant sits higher.
Click to expand...

I'll believe it when I see it. This is from a later manual that covers the entire A-body range.
 
72bluNblu said:
Right. But unless you happen to be running bias ply tires, you need a custom alignment. Because the factory specs are for bias ply's, and are wrong for radials. The same actually applies for the ride height, although that changes other things.



A SPC Fastrax caster camber gauge, a set of turn plates I bought second hand for the front, a set of slip plates for the rear, and a set of toe plates to more accurately set the toe.

Fastrax gauge, get the one that fits your range of rims (this one is for 13-17 wheels) SPC Performance 91000 SPC Performance FasTrax Camber Caster Gauges | Summit Racing

Toe Plates JOES Racing Products 32600 JOES Racing Products Economy Toe Plates | Summit Racing

Turn plates- not the kind I have, but an affordable option One Pair Aluminum Turntable Wheel Alignment 360° Rotating Turn Plate Table 4 Ton | eBay

My set is more like this, and you can pick great ones up used Hunter RL vehicle alignment turn plates slip plates 14" x 14" | eBay



He also doesn't mention his plans or the context, he may just be trying to get it close enough to get to an alignment shop. Regardless, a rough alignment can be done easily at home with basic tools. Toe is actually the most important tire wearing setting, and it's the easiest to set.



Exactly. Not ideal, but with practice you can actually do a pretty decent alignment like this.



I'll believe it when I see it. This is from a later manual that covers the entire A-body range.
Click to expand...

I was refering more to the ride height more than anything.
 
Buy a water level at a home store, easy to use to get (shim) 4 level spots for the cars tires to sit on. You can't really compare suspension angles to printed specs unless the car is sitting on a leveled spot. With my car nose into my garage, It was level side to side, but I had to put rear tires on some plywood squares to be level front to back. Once you find these spots mark them so you can return to them each time you check or make an adjustment.
 
72bluNblu said:
Right. But unless you happen to be running bias ply tires, you need a custom alignment. Because the factory specs are for bias ply's, and are wrong for radials. The same actually applies for the ride height, although that changes other things.



A SPC Fastrax caster camber gauge, a set of turn plates I bought second hand for the front, a set of slip plates for the rear, and a set of toe plates to more accurately set the toe.

Fastrax gauge, get the one that fits your range of rims (this one is for 13-17 wheels) SPC Performance 91000 SPC Performance FasTrax Camber Caster Gauges | Summit Racing

Toe Plates JOES Racing Products 32600 JOES Racing Products Economy Toe Plates | Summit Racing

Turn plates- not the kind I have, but an affordable option One Pair Aluminum Turntable Wheel Alignment 360° Rotating Turn Plate Table 4 Ton | eBay

My set is more like this, and you can pick great ones up used Hunter RL vehicle alignment turn plates slip plates 14" x 14" | eBay



He also doesn't mention his plans or the context, he may just be trying to get it close enough to get to an alignment shop. Regardless, a rough alignment can be done easily at home with basic tools. Toe is actually the most important tire wearing setting, and it's the easiest to set.



Exactly. Not ideal, but with practice you can actually do a pretty decent alignment like this.



I'll believe it when I see it. This is from a later manual that covers the entire A-body range.
Click to expand...
It looks like you are pretty well equipped and know your stuff. Let me reword my above statement, without the proper equipment and know how, home and front end alignment don't belong in the same sentence. Setting toe is about all you can do.
 
Well I wasn't expecting this kind of response! Many thanks for those of you who commented.

I need to get it in the ballpark after a total front end rebuild. Once its close I can get to a more optimal place to do the work perfectly.

This isn't my first home alignment I've done, I just usually have the benefit of being in my garage which has a remarkable level floor. Using the simple Longacre racing stuff I have yet to have a problem.
 
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IMO, finding someone as far as todays techs who actually will perform all of the adjustments on one of these cars is the challenge. I had the wifes 97 bmercury sable in at a Firestone for 4 tires and 4 wheel alignment, the kid (he was about early twenties, maybe 24ish)told me that I "needed kits" for him to set rear toe..I said "Kits? the adjusters are right there..." BS artists are what they are charge you for some service that they only do one half of IMO. Point is, doing it "At Home" may be your best shot at getting the front end set up right.
 
69cudaownr said:
The V and L carline does not apply to all A Bodies, Barracudas sit lower. I'm away from home right now so I can't check my Service Manual but the Barracuda is 1 3/8" + or - 1/8" if my memory serves me correct. I just set mine a month ago. The Valiant sits higher.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected! I looked up the Barracuda specific measurement in my '68 Plymouth service manual. Sure enough, it's 1 3/8". Pretty interesting, not sure why the factory would spec different ride heights given that all of these cars used the exact same suspension components. I get the 4 door being different, likely from a load standpoint. But the Barracuda vs a 2 door hard top? Maybe the 108" vs the 111" wheelbase? But then the Duster should be different as well. Gotta love Ma Mopar. The 2 1/8" spec is for 4 doors, the 2 door spec was 1 7/8", Barracuda's were 1 3/8".

Screen Shot 2021-04-06 at 10.01.20 AM.png
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Dartswinger70 said:
IMO, finding someone as far as todays techs who actually will perform all of the adjustments on one of these cars is the challenge. I had the wifes 97 bmercury sable in at a Firestone for 4 tires and 4 wheel alignment, the kid (he was about early twenties, maybe 24ish)told me that I "needed kits" for him to set rear toe..I said "Kits? the adjusters are right there..." BS artists are what they are charge you for some service that they only do one half of IMO. Point is, doing it "At Home" may be your best shot at getting the front end set up right.
Click to expand...

It's pretty much impossible. Most modern shops will put the car in their computer and get the factory alignment specs, which should NOT be used with radial tires. Then they'll give you some BS about liability when you tell them you want to use the skosh chart instead. Which is hilarious, because the car will handle and steer like crap with bias ply alignment numbers and radial tires. But they don't get that. And yeah, even if you find someone that will use the skosh chart they may not have any idea how to work on one of these cars.

I align mine at home, and when I buy new tires I have it checked on the machine at the tire shop, then tell them not to touch anything. Which is usually fine by them, since they don't want to deal with my adjustable UCA's and strut rods.
 
I often thought of this when looking at 67 Belvedere GtX's on Carsonline. look at 10 cars and notice the fender lip height on the rear are at different levels on some. SS springs maybe?
 
fratzog lover said:
I often thought of this when looking at 67 Belvedere GtX's on Carsonline. look at 10 cars and notice the fender lip height on the rear are at different levels on some. SS springs maybe?
Click to expand...

Yeah but how many of them are actually at the factory ride height spec? Most modern alignment shops do not have a good understanding of how you can change the ride height with a torsion bar adjustment. And just looking at cars online you have no idea if the car has been intentionally lowered, or is just running around on worn out factory suspension and hasn't had an alignment in decades.
 
72bluNblu said:
Yeah but how many of them are actually at the factory ride height spec? Most modern alignment shops do not have a good understanding of how you can change the ride height with a torsion bar adjustment. And just looking at cars online you have no idea if the car has been intentionally lowered, or is just running around on worn out factory suspension and hasn't had an alignment in decades.
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I think the 67 GTX looks just right when the whole rear wheel is visible as opposed to having an inch or 2 obscured.

gt1.jpg
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gtx.jpg
 
@72bluNblu is right on. I went to a local well know alignment shop who was recommended to me to have my falcon aligned. This was after I had installed a complete new tci front end with coil overs and adjustable everything, and 18x10s all around. He quoted me $400 and went to look up the specs. I said hell no and put my skosh chart and my money back in my pocket went home and bought some turning plates and a longacre gauge and have been doing my own alignments since.
 
TT5.9mag said:
@72bluNblu is right on. I went to a local well know alignment shop who was recommended to me to have my falcon aligned. This was after I had installed a complete new tci front end with coil overs and adjustable everything, and 18x10s all around. He quoted me $400 and went to look up the specs. I said hell no and put my skosh chart and my money back in my pocket went home and bought some turning plates and a longacre gauge and have been doing my own alignments since.
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Exactly!

$400 is insane!!! I was figuring around $100 per alignment, assuming you can find a place that will even touch it. And even at $100 an alignment I'm money ahead on my alignment set up. It takes a little practice, but with as many older cars as I have and how much I tend to modify them it only made sense to be doing the alignments myself.

I like that style of caster/camber gauge better than the fastrax too, I have an old Snap-On one that looks almost identical minus the anodizing. But with aluminum wheels and the hubs not coming all the way through some of the wheels I have they don't work so good.
 
I’ve started doing my own alignments on everything. And you’re correct some hub/wheel styles make it difficult to magnetize the gauge too. On my 3500 Chevy I made a steel plate that bolts to the hub with the wheel studs and gives a perfect location for the gauge.
 
So, where might someone find the turn plates and guages to get setup at home? I am a retired tech and have done many alignments on a "machine"
 
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