Stay with a carburetor or go EFI

OK, so my Duster is apart and in a state of limbo right now. First and foremost it needs to be rewired which I will be tackling soon. It's also getting new headers, exhaust and possibly some other trinkets before I get it back on the road.

While everything is out of the car, I am seriously considering converting to EFI. Nothing wrong with a carburetor, they certainly have their place, especially in a street/strip car like mine.

However, I have had a good experience so far with the Holley Sniper in my B body. Frankly, that car runs light years better than it ever did with a carburetor. I believe having a digitally controlled ignition and higher fuel pressure are both a big help in getting our older cars running more crisply. Plus, I like the data logging capability and being to tailor the tune on the fly with a laptop.

That said, converting to EFI adds a lot of complexity. Integrating an aftermarket EFI harness into an aftermarket wiring harness based off later-model GM products is not the easiest project to tackle. Also, my battery is in the trunk. EFI stuff "generally" requires that the power leads go right to the battery posts so I'd either have to roll the dice, connect to a junction point on the firewall and hope it works as it should or move the battery back up front. Having the battery in the trunk can be a PITA but I'm used to it. Not so thrilled with the idea of undoing all the work I did to make it work back there but it's just a few wires at the moment, not a total loss.

Going EFI will require changing out the current fuel system or at least modifying it to accommodate the EFI components. Right now the car is using a giant Clay Smith mechanical fuel pump. The fuel tank is a brand-new fabricated aluminum tank but currently has no provision for an in-tank type of pump. A lot of work went into getting that stupid fuel pump to fit and that gas tank cost a pretty penny. But, in the name of progress, they might have to go by the wayside. Suppose I could keep the tank but it would have to have a recess cut out for the fuel pump. I'm not a TIG welder so that will need to go somewhere to get done.

The ignition system would also get changed out from Ye Olde MSD 6 and cool-guy Mopar Performance tach drive distributor to the Holley EFI ignition and distributor. It's not worth the effort to make the EFI work with non-EFI ignition components. The tach drive is bitchin' but it's not digitally controlled. The timing curve is all in by around 1,200 rpm or so, almost like being locked out. The digital ignition provides way more tuning functionality. There's a two step feature and nitrous/boost retard if I ever choose to go those routes.

Carburetors can be finicky and are comparatively crude compared to EFI. This is especially true with weather changes. From most of what I've read about it, EFI seems to give up some HP at the very top end but otherwise it's a better way to mix air and fuel especially during part throttle driving. I want the car to be fast but I also don't want to mess with it every time I take it out. Sure I can buy a top-shelf, custom carb but they're almost as much or more than today's EFI systems.

Lot to consider. Would the benefits of EFI outweigh the added complexity? Should I keep the thing super old school and see how it goes? Let me know what you think.

Greg

Sounds to me like you've already talked yourself into the EFI, except for the wiring (which you're doing anyway) and your fuel tank- which you didn't mention if it was still using a factory sender/pickup. If it is, you might consider this; which would allow you to keep and reuse your custom tank:
Holley Sniper EFI 12-319 Holley 255 LPH OE Style EFI Fuel Tank Modules

This topic ends up going in the clanker normally. It sounds like you have already got a handle on using the Sniper so it's a no brainer!

JW

Eeeehhh, sort of. Theres a lot more too it than just getting the car running. Conversely, if the carb is tuned OK its great and stays simple. And having done it already I know the complexity and cost of EFI is a big factor.

I tend to tinker with stuff endlessly but its somewhat easier to find your way back with EFI.

I don’t think I’d go back to a carb on a street car. I currently have a sniper on my ‘55. Gotta have all new wiring and fuel system as well as a solid charging system. Can’t simply connect four wires like Holley says. It may run but it will definitely let you down.

For dollar to dollar performance the carb wins hands down.

I have the sniper on mine street car 360 stroker 3 years now yes the expense is higher to set it up properly . Love the tune ability and you can make adjustments on the fly. Just got to learn how to read the logs and understand what’s what.

I’ve got the FI tech set up on the 66 barracuda. Tanks inc built me a tank with the pump right in there. 3/8” feed and 5/16” return. “Turn key and GO!” With this new fuel and the garbage issues from it. I would not think twice. EFI. EFI. EFI!

If you are going for OEM then carb. If you are going for drivability go for efi.

Keep in mind that carberated engines have worked fine for over 100 years.



My dart will be running ( points and carb) after an EMP while all the EFI cars are dead on the side of the road.

This is the fuel tank I have. The sender is over there in the corner, not in the front like normal. Best thing would be to emulate how Tanks, Inc. does it and cut a recess in the front to make room for the top of the pump and outlets. I kind of don't want to have to do that to this thing but it seems like there isn't any other reasonable way to accomplish having an in-tank pump.

I could just buy a stock-style EFI ready tank but with a 3" exhaust and springs offset inward things will be tight.

The BIG problem as I see it with carbs is..........parts and carbs are getting harder to get, but the BIG problem is alky-ized fuels, which just plain boil and vapor lock much much easier.

I can not justify the cost of EFI in miles/ vs whatevers but I AM staying with EFI

rmchrgr said:

This is the fuel tank I have. The sender is over there in the corner, not in the front like normal. Best thing would be to emulate how Tanks, Inc. does it and cut a recess in the front to make room for the top of the pump and outlets. I kind of don't want to have to do that to this thing but it seems like there isn't any other reasonable way to accomplish having an in-tank pump.

I could just buy a stock-style EFI ready tank but with a 3" exhaust and springs offset inward things will be tight.
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What I like with the tanks inc tank is the built in baffle no fuel serge under heavy acceleration or Cornering . I use their electronic sender units they do work but a little on the slow side when driving . In all honesty they are a really nice quality unit finished in a powder coat . Yeah you might have an issue with the spring offset.

Hey I can fix my carb, electronics not so much.

I like carburetors.

Dana67Dart said:

If you are going for OEM then carb. If you are going for drivability go for efi.

Keep in mind that carberated engines have worked fine for over 100 years.



My dart will be running ( points and carb) after an EMP while all the EFI cars are dead on the side of the road.

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Yeah , they work fine untill u get into drastic altitude changes !

Dragonsteel said:

For dollar to dollar performance the carb wins hands down.

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Not so , the fastest 340 around here is f.inj. !

There's the argument that ALL modern cars, no matter what make or model are and have been fuel injected for almost 40 years now. If carburetors worked as well as injection, there would be no discussion but that's not reality. There is a nostalgia for carbs but if you look at it from a purely technological viewpoint fuel injection is always going to provide more precise control over your air fuel mix which theoretically will improve overall drivability.

There also seems to be a great deal of fear or intimidation about fuel injection. Or more likely, guys may not want modern electronics in their rides because it takes away from the overall "old car" experience. Have I embraced newer technology? I guess. I've been using an air/fuel gauge for a while and it did help with tuning my carbs. Suppose if you are living in that world already it's easy to see the benefits of injection and it's not a big leap.

I know what it takes to set it up, even in a relatively simple format like the Sniper. It's not for everyone. I guess this thread is more about whether I want to more work for myself dealing with all the peripheral stuff. It's not just connecting a few wires and an EFI fuel pump. The Sniper wiring harness is borderline useless in terms of fitment so I already know I'm making a custom harness for it. There's also the entire fuel system which includes a return. The plumbing can get fairly involved when you have two lines to deal with especially when areas are tight or near exhaust/moving parts. I use -AN type fittings which can wind up costing a small fortune.

If I keep the carb, none of that is relevant which saves me a lot of time and money.

I have used the Fitech units successfully for a couple of years now on two different vehicles. I am happy with them. I still have a carb on my 340 Dart - but that will change in the next year or two.

rmchrgr said:

There's the argument that ALL modern cars, no matter what make or model are and have been fuel injected for almost 40 years now. If carburetors worked as well as injection, there would be no discussion but that's not reality. There is a nostalgia for carbs but if you look at it from a purely technological viewpoint fuel injection is always going to provide more precise control over your air fuel mix which theoretically will improve overall drivability.

There also seems to be a great deal of fear or intimidation about fuel injection. Or more likely, guys may not want modern electronics in their rides because it takes away from the overall "old car" experience. Have I embraced newer technology? I guess. I've been using an air/fuel gauge for a while and it did help with tuning my carbs. Suppose if you are living in that world already it's easy to see the benefits of injection and it's not a big leap.

I know what it takes to set it up, even in a relatively simple format like the Sniper. It's not for everyone. I guess this thread is more about whether I want to more work for myself dealing with all the peripheral stuff. It's not just connecting a few wires and an EFI fuel pump. The Sniper wiring harness is borderline useless in terms of fitment so I already know I'm making a custom harness for it. There's also the entire fuel system which includes a return. The plumbing can get fairly involved when you have two lines to deal with especially when areas are tight or near exhaust/moving parts. I use -AN type fittings which can wind up costing a small fortune.

If I keep the carb, none of that is relevant which saves me a lot of time and money.

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It has nothing to do with fear.

OEM EFI is about emissions and junk like that. It damn sure isn’t about maximum power.

If a carb can’t be made drivable that’s on the tuner.

If you are willing to spend the timing learning EFI, why not spend the time to learn carburation?

If your goal is to be able to turn the key and have it idle than EFI is what you want. Any half assed tuned carb will start and run with a turn of the key, and it takes about 1 minute for the car to sit and idle on its own. If that.

yellow rose said:

It has nothing to do with fear.

OEM EFI is about emissions and junk like that. It damn sure isn’t about maximum power.

If a carb can’t be made drivable that’s on the tuner.

If you are willing to spend the timing learning EFI, why not spend the time to learn carburation?

If your goal is to be able to turn the key and have it idle than EFI is what you want. Any half assed tuned carb will start and run with a turn of the key, and it takes about 1 minute for the car to sit and idle on its own. If that.

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I would add it's customer driven as well. Same reason they give you a spark plug that goes 150k miles now. It's not that it's better than a copper core plug, because it's not! But so many don't want to bother even to lift a hood, so changing plugs at 50k was a bother. It's also the reason they want "automatic pilot". Too many don't even have enough interest in driving their car. Just snap chat, text, play a game, or even sleep while the car drives itself.

There are many, many reasons to stick with a carburetor. To name a few:

1. Being able to rebuild a carburetor makes you feel smart and important.
2. That fragrant smell of carburetor cleaner.
3. You actually feel useful every time you fix the accelerator pump when it craps out.
4. You would have to find other leisure time activities if you didn't get to constantly tinker with the choke and the choke pull-off in order to get it to run right when cold.
5. If you had EFI, it would be too damned easy to find a mechanic to work on your car. Not being able to find anybody who's willing to work on your carbureted car forces you to learn to fix it yourself and thus builds character.
6. With EFI it's too easy to diagnose what's wrong with it, while with a carburetor it makes things interesting by keeping you guessing.
etc., etc.

Time time time.... I'm going efi... but its taking me extra time to get everything sorted. Carb....done. you know what it takes to do it. I have carb'd cars with points and with less time i have those running great! Fix on the side of the road. I run non ethanol on those though. You have one efi... this situation...carb.

$0.02

rmchrgr said:

Also, my battery is in the trunk. EFI stuff "generally" requires that the power leads go right to the battery posts so I'd either have to roll the dice, connect to a junction point on the firewall and hope it works as it should or move the battery back up front. Having the battery in the trunk can be a PITA but I'm used to it. Not so thrilled with the idea of undoing all the work I did to make it work back there but it's just a few wires at the moment, not a total loss.

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FYI, all the new Challengers and Chargers have their battery in the trunk, and they seem to work fine. So it appears to me that it works.

Best guess, if you have good grounds and large enough power leads, probably works fine.

But just a guess.

yellow rose said:

It has nothing to do with fear.

OEM EFI is about emissions and junk like that. It damn sure isn’t about maximum power.

If a carb can’t be made drivable that’s on the tuner.

If you are willing to spend the timing learning EFI, why not spend the time to learn carburation?

If your goal is to be able to turn the key and have it idle than EFI is what you want. Any half assed tuned carb will start and run with a turn of the key, and it takes about 1 minute for the car to sit and idle on its own. If that.

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I kind of wonder if an 485 HP motor could be run on a carb and still be grandmother approved to drive and return 22+ mpg. I am sure a 750 DP would work fine, but I bet it would be hard to get it to run clean all the time, slightly finicky when cold and return (at best) 18 mpg. Now take that same motor and carb and sell it in all 50 states and see how well it works when the climates are so radically different.

I don't think we would have Scat Packs and Hellcats if the OEM's had stayed with carbs. I agree they moved that way due to emissions, but I think it opened whole new chapter in performance in the end.

famous bob said:

Yeah , they work fine untill u get into drastic altitude changes

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Sea level car at 5000 feet now, I leaned out the carb, ran like crap, put stock jets back in runs fine.