1969 Dodge Dart issue with installing axles after thrust block removal.

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kybatman

kybatman

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Location
Bowie, Texas
1969 Dart.
8 3/4 stock length rear end.
489 Chunk, 294 cone style sure grip. Stock Axle length w/ green bearings.

Had thrust block removed, re setup, and now i cannot get either axle to go all the way in.

Both would go all the way in before removal.

Have i lost my mind?

BFH and a block of wood perhaps?

Any ideas would be appreciated. All of the posts I could find via search only mention the left side and issues.

Bruce
 
Sounds like the splines in sure grip aren't lined up.

There are two sets of splines, if the inners and outers get a little off the axles won't advance all the way.
 
That would be the case for the left side but not the right I thought??

:)
 
kybatman said:
That would be the case for the left side but not the right I thought??

:)
Click to expand...

No, there are inner and outer splines on a sure grip. One set for the carrier and one for the sure grip. So it can effect both sides.

Method to correct it is here 8 3/4 sure grip axle problem

Typically if it's a one side issue then you have an adjuster issue. But since you have green bearings you no longer have an adjuster on one side, so you're left with just the spline issue.
 
From a previous post yrs ago.

Put the wheel on the axle thats in all the way,, and drop it on the ground,, block it front and back..

The axle that won't go all the way in, depending on diff, may have a 2 piece side-gear that can mis-align the splines, you may be able to see a misalign,, put the axle in as far as it'll go,, get a lever long enuff to to fit thru the lugs,, and try to turn the axle/outer gear a tad at a time,, and tap the axle after each movement until it pops in..

Or,, as mentioned,, there's a button that coulda dropped out on SOME diffs, maybe have a look in there..
 
I had this problem, and it turned out I had not seated the grease seal far enough inside the axle tube. The bearing was hitting the seal, stopping the axle from going fully into place. I tapped it a little further in and the axle went in just fine.
 
72bluNblu said:
No, there are inner and outer splines on a sure grip. One set for the carrier and one for the sure grip. So it can effect both sides.

Method to correct it is here 8 3/4 sure grip axle problem

Typically if it's a one side issue then you have an adjuster issue. But since you have green bearings you no longer have an adjuster on one side, so you're left with just the spline issue.
Click to expand...


Will have to try this..

Had to do this once before on the left side but guess I got lucky with the right ..

Car is older than the kid that removed the thrust block, so maybe he did not know to align the inners.

Thanks 72blu... I appreciate it..

Will update on Monday if this works..

-Bruce
 
What 72 Blu and Batman said. Also check to see if the bearing are seated (pressed) to the correct location on the axels...
 
Scody21 said:
What 72 Blu and Batman said. Also check to see if the bearing are seated (pressed) to the correct location on the axels...
Click to expand...

The axles were completely installed and the car was running prior to the removal of the thrust block..

Guess I should have put that out there in the beginning. Had the thrust block removed because rear end was whining from the thrust block not being removed when I went to green bearings.

Bruce
 
Yeah, that’s helpful to know. The other guys covered the solution. The joy of working on old cars...
 
Not to insult anyone but green bearings are not the great thing they are cracked up to be.

If this car got original Type bearings and left the sure grip alone it would have gone together just fine and be driving now.
 
413 said:
Not to insult anyone but green bearings are not the great thing they are cracked up to be.

If this car got original Type bearings and left the sure grip alone it would have gone together just fine and be driving now.
Click to expand...

Appreciate the fact that everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I paid for it, so I built it the way I wanted it.

:)

Bruce
 
413 said:
Not to insult anyone but green bearings are not the great thing they are cracked up to be.

If this car got original Type bearings and left the sure grip alone it would have gone together just fine and be driving now.
Click to expand...

While I prefer the OE style tapered bearings myself, green bearings work just fine for plenty of people. As long as you run the 2nd Gen version they’ll last a long time without issues Why Green Bearings? - Quality Body Shop Drivetrain

And the splines can become misaligned any time the axles are out of the car. Obviously it’s more likely to happen if you’re doing something like removing the thrust button like in this case, but this kind of thing happens all the time with both styles of bearings. So the commentary is as inaccurate as it is inappropriate.
 
In the future when you take a SG apart, use the axles to insert in either end to line up the splines as you bolt the SG back together. I have some cut off axles I use to do this. I put one axle piece in the vise and set the Sg on it then stick the other axle piece in as i torque the halves together.
 
How do the splines get misaligned from each other just by having the axle ve been at this for decades and haven’t had it happen with taking it apart. They are loaded and don’t move easily.
 
413 said:
How do the splines get misaligned from each other just by having the axle ve been at this for decades and haven’t had it happen with taking it apart. They are loaded and don’t move easily.
Click to expand...
Because you have to take the SG apart to remove the thrust spacer. If you don’t align the-cone and side gear when you bolt it back together, they will be out of line.
 
SGBARRACUDA said:
Because you have to take the SG apart to remove the thrust spacer. If you don’t align the-cone and side gear when you bolt it back together, they will be out of line.
Click to expand...

I must have done it the hard way with a long drift and the pig on its side pushing the button out...
 
kybatman said:
Will have to try this..

Had to do this once before on the left side but guess I got lucky with the right ..

Car is older than the kid that removed the thrust block, so maybe he did not know to align the inners.

Thanks 72blu... I appreciate it..

Will update on Monday if this works..

-Bruce
Click to expand...
U don’t need to remove the thrust block if the bearings have the snap ring. There is so much wrong info out there a d it gets repeated all the time. And from ppl that have never even used them. That’s with the real old green bearings. Kim
 
72bluNblu said:
And the splines can become misaligned any time the axles are out of the car.
Click to expand...

I’m Questioning this statement. How do they get misaligned just removing the axle? I understand they are misaligned whenever it is taken apart.
 
413 said:
I’m Questioning this statement. How do they get misaligned just removing the axle? I understand they are misaligned whenever it is taken apart.
Click to expand...
I’ve never had a case where the two splines got out of sink by just removing the axles.
 
I have had the pin in the thrust block break and the thrust block falls or gets out of place. Flash light down the tube to the center to see if there is a blockage or something wrong.
 
Hyper_pak said:
I have had the pin in the thrust block break and the thrust block falls or gets out of place. Flash light down the tube to the center to see if there is a blockage or something wrong.
Click to expand...
Read the original post. It is a Cone SG NOT the Dana clutch style that uses a roll pin and Two small mushroom buttons. They are two different animals.
 
413 said:
How do the splines get misaligned from each other just by having the axle ve been at this for decades and haven’t had it happen with taking it apart. They are loaded and don’t move easily.
Click to expand...

413 said:
I’m Questioning this statement. How do they get misaligned just removing the axle? I understand they are misaligned whenever it is taken apart.
Click to expand...

First, read what I actually said. I did not say you can misalign the splines by "just removing the axle", like you are now saying. I said that any time the axles are out, the splines can become misaligned. That's a really important difference.

Most of the time someone is pulling an axle they're not just pulling it out to slide it right back in either. They're doing stuff. Like, I don't know, removing a thrust button? All it takes is half a spline width off. And if the axles are out, the splines CAN GET MISALIGNED. I didn't say it was easy, I didn't say it happens every time, I just said it's possible. And clearly, it is.

Remember, this thread is about having an issue after the thrust button was removed. The context is important.

And just because you've been doing something "for decades" doesn't mean you've seen everything. I've been at this for decades too, and I sure as hell haven't seen it all. I can absolutely guarantee you haven't either.
 
oldkimmer said:
U don’t need to remove the thrust block if the bearings have the snap ring. There is so much wrong info out there a d it gets repeated all the time. And from ppl that have never even used them. That’s with the real old green bearings. Kim
Click to expand...
With the thrust block in, once the axles were tightened against the backing plates, you could not turn the wheels. While driving the rear end would whine horribly.

lived with it for as long as I could and decided to have the block removed.


Bruce
 
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