1969 Dodge Dart issue with installing axles after thrust block removal.

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if you turned the axle shaft, when the other axle is removed, the splines on the empty side can spin relative to each other becoming mis-aligned. You can disassemble everything and loosen the bolts holding the SG together until you can reinsert the axles fully then retighten the SG fasteners. OR like was suggested you can use a block of wood against the studs like a lever and rap the wood lever, hoping to create just enough slippage in the clutches to allow the side gear splines to align and the axle to fully seat. Repeat as necessary for the other side. Once you have them aligned, reassemble third member into housing, carefully insert BOTH axles before you start spinning any axle shaft to tighten the axle shaft retaining bolts. Enjoy.
 
The clutch plates type carrier has buttons which can be remove without it being completely torn apart. The cone style has a thrush style spacer which requires the carrier to be removed and completely dissembled to be removed. Either one requires axle shafts or axle spine stubs be inserted fully into the carries when tighten the two half’s of the carrier together.

I was told the newer “green” bearings; the ones with the snap ring did not require removing the thrush block. I made damn sure the axles slide into the carrier before install it into the housing. I then used a dab of grease on each end of the axle, installed, tightened things down, and then remove and checked the axle tips for the grease displacement.

The axle tips showed grease, I am good to go. 70 dart, cone style clutch, 741 case 3.73 gears.
 
kybatman said:
With the thrust block in, once the axles were tightened against the backing plates, you could not turn the wheels. While driving the rear end would whine horribly.

lived with it for as long as I could and decided to have the block removed.


Bruce
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U probably have other problems. Kim
 
72bluNblu said:
First, read what I actually said. I did not say you can misalign the splines by "just removing the axle", like you are now saying. I said that any time the axles are out, the splines can become misaligned. That's a really important difference.

Most of the time someone is pulling an axle they're not just pulling it out to slide it right back in either. They're doing stuff. Like, I don't know, removing a thrust button? All it takes is half a spline width off. And if the axles are out, the splines CAN GET MISALIGNED. I didn't say it was easy, I didn't say it happens every time, I just said it's possible. And clearly, it is.

Remember, this thread is about having an issue after the thrust button was removed. The context is important.

And just because you've been doing something "for decades" doesn't mean you've seen everything. I've been at this for decades too, and I sure as hell haven't seen it all. I can absolutely guarantee you haven't either.
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I was questioning your statement trying to learn about axles. I’ve never herd of what your statement said so I asked.
Now I find out that your statement was incomplete and had ambiguous assumptions that you meant the differential was apart. Thanks for clearing it up!
 
Dicer said:
The clutch plates type carrier has buttons which can be remove without it being completely torn apart. The cone style has a thrush style spacer which requires the carrier to be removed and completely dissembled to be removed. Either one requires axle shafts or axle spine stubs be inserted fully into the carries when tighten the two half’s of the carrier together.

I was told the newer “green” bearings; the ones with the snap ring did not require removing the thrush block. I made damn sure the axles slide into the carrier before install it into the housing. I then used a dab of grease on each end of the axle, installed, tightened things down, and then remove and checked the axle tips for the grease displacement.

The axle tips showed grease, I am good to go. 70 dart, cone style clutch, 741 case 3.73 gears.
Click to expand...
So if the grease is not smashed flat, you're saying that there is enough clearance to not worry about removing the buttons in the carrier?
 
Ricks70Duster340 said:
So if the grease is not smashed flat, you're saying that there is enough clearance to not worry about removing the buttons in the carrier?
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Buttons in the carrier, as in the "plates style clutch" this I do not know, you would have to try it. I have a cone clutch and it worked without removing the thrust block. The buttons would I am pretty sure can be removed using a magnet on a long stick.
 
If the buttons are properly installed there is a through pin, looks like a finish nail, through the holes in their center. The pin is supposed to be staked on the pointy end so as to retain the buttons. Not all of them were which allowed the little buggers to come out on the end of the axles and fall into the banjo or tubes.
Years of struggling with dimensional problems caused by "green" bearings that resulted in stripped splines in the side gears or at the ends of axle shafts has reinforced my observation that Chrysler got it right in the first place with the adjustable tapered roller bearing with the end play spacer in the Diff. I got tired of buying axles, so all of my rear end assemblies have been switched back to OEM adjustable tapered roller bearings, which puts ME back in control of the critical axle end play dimension, and ensures total engagement of the two side gear splines on each axle.
 
All else being equal, Green bearings equalize the inner spline engagement side to side.

OEM adjustable wheel bearings cause the axle spline engagement to vary unless you blueprint the axle lengths. Measure the axle flange stand-out on both sides of any stock 8 3/4″ rearend. Because of production tolerances, the single adjuster causes the axle flange (and inner axle spline) to protrude farther on 1 side than the other.

I have a 5 gallon bucket full of stripped out (2 piece style clutch/power-lock) side gears due to insufficient spline engagement on one side caused by the single OEM threaded adjuster.

The primary culprit is the poorly designed, narrow, 2 piece side gear arrangement found in most OEM clutch sure-grips. This changed in mid year 1968, a half year before Chrysler discontinued the clutch sure-grip.
 
DoctorDiff said:
All else being equal, Green bearings equalize the inner spline engagement side to side.

OEM adjustable wheel bearings cause the axle spline engagement to vary unless you blueprint the axle lengths. Measure the axle flange stand-out on both sides of any stock 8 3/4″ rearend. Because of production tolerances, the single adjuster causes the axle flange (and inner axle spline) to protrude farther on 1 side than the other.

I have a 5 gallon bucket full of stripped out (2 piece style clutch/power-lock) side gears due to insufficient spline engagement on one side caused by the single OEM threaded adjuster.

The primary culprit is the poorly designed, narrow, 2 piece side gear arrangement found in most OEM clutch sure-grips. This changed in mid year 1968, a half year before Chrysler discontinued the clutch sure-grip.
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Cass, is it safe to leave the "buttons" in the third member when replacing axles using the green bearings? Some have recommended putting a dab of grease on the end of the axles, tightening them down, then pulling them back out to ensure there is some space (and not jammed). Your thoughts?
 
If you are running stock axles, a stock housing, stock brakes and (MO-400/ST-400) snap-ring style Green bearings, you can leave the thrust button intact.
 
DoctorDiff said:
If you are running stock axles, a stock housing, stock brakes and (MO-400/ST-400) snap-ring style Green bearings, you can leave the thrust button intact.
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I guess I should state that I am not running stock brakes but rather Discs.

The thought never occurred to add that little nugget to the equation.

Thanks as Always for your guidance Cass..

Bruce
 
I put the Doctor Diff rear discs on a 73 cuda. Green bearings on stock axles. Cone sure grip with the spacer block left in it. Kim
 
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