833 4spd repair advice

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Shmaako

Shmaako

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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Got my 833 4spd trans rebuilt, and I installed about 6 months ago. I have never driven the car only started the motor a few times with trans in neutral .."always."
Recently sent car to go get an entire once over, (nuts bolt brakes fluids) as this was my first build ever.
The shop called me to tell me my transmission is shot due to my starting the engine a few times. I had no idea that I could have damaged my manual trans as long as I had in neutral but apparently I was sadly mistaken.

Question is, any guesses as to how much damage I could have done here? Are we talking I need a whole new rebuild? or..?
Any help is appreciated
 
Unless it wasn't rebuilt properly it doesn't hurt a thing to start it in neutral. Something else may be wrong.


SEE MY POST #5 THEN READ POST# 6
 
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All of the gear clusters are in a constant mesh, it would throw gear oil everywhere, even sitting still...bad news if you didn't have gear oil in it...
 
Doesn't hurt. Especially for a few min. I like starting in neutral. It's easier on the crankshaft and thrust bearing on a cold start. Everything is just spinning along for the ride. The input shaft turns the counter shaft and throws transmission lube all over inside.



NOW THAT MORE OF THE STORY COMES OUT: it is probably toast. SEE POST #6
 
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Dicer said:
All of the gear clusters are in a constant mesh, it would throw gear oil everywhere, even sitting still...bad news if you didn't have gear oil in it...
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I got the rebuilt trans back and installed. I did not put any gear oil or anything in it....So you're saying it is quite possible that it could be completely pooched? or...
 
Are the linkages set up correctly? If it doesn’t come totally out of gear, it won’t go into any gear. Did you take the locating pin in the shifter out?
 
Shmaako said:
I got the rebuilt trans back and installed. I did not put any gear oil or anything in it....So you're saying it is quite possible that it could be completely pooched? or...
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Oops! You could have done some damage. Nothing to lose. Fill it and try it.
 
TheGrateRonzini said:
Are the linkages set up correctly? If it doesn’t come totally out of gear, it won’t go into any gear. Did you take the locating pin in the shifter out?
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I took the pin out after I set all the linkages yes. When I was just running the shifter through all the gears without engine running, first and second were real short and 3rd and fourth were longer and smoother, but overall, I was surprised at how 'rough' it shifted with it being freshly rebuilt. But figured it may be because there was no fluid or something, I wasn't sure.
 
Here’s a thought exercise for you. The car is running, the transmission is in neutral. You want to shift it into first. You still need the clutch right? That’s because stuff is spinning inside the transmission.

So, yes, you definitely could have damaged some of the internals if you’ve been running the engine, with the transmission in neutral, with no oil in the transmission. Unless maybe you were also holding the clutch in the whole time. If the clutch was out, the input shaft was spinning. So all the bearings associated with the input shaft could be cooked. Depends on how long the engine ran each time.
 
Old man ray said:
I use ATF fluid in all mine. Not gear oil. Shifts fine not a problem.
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If he ran it for a short time without lube it could have caused some damage. Are the counter shafts bearings or just bushings? (thinking out loud) Fill it to the bottom of the fill plug with ATF and run it to see if it quiets down, drain it warm and fill it again. You might be able to save it with minimal damage.
Shmaako said:
I took the pin out after I set all the linkages yes. When I was just running the shifter through all the gears without engine running, first and second were real short and 3rd and fourth were longer and smoother, but overall, I was surprised at how 'rough' it shifted with it being freshly rebuilt. But figured it may be because there was no fluid or something, I wasn't sure.
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The question I have is what kind of a shop would rebuild a transmission ,install it in the car , then not ad fluid ? I'd make them make good on that blunder
 
72bluNblu said:
Here’s a thought exercise for you. The car is running, the transmission is in neutral. You want to shift it into first. You still need the clutch right? That’s because stuff is spinning inside the transmission.

So, yes, you definitely could have damaged some of the internals if you’ve been running the engine, with the transmission in neutral, with no oil in the transmission. Unless maybe you were also holding the clutch in the whole time. If the clutch was out, the input shaft was spinning. So all the bearings associated with the input shaft could be cooked. Depends on how long the engine ran each time.
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That does make sense ya. I was not holding the clutch it while running, however, the engine ran under ten minutes one time, and only a few minutes a couple of other times.
 
Shmaako said:
That does make sense ya. I was not holding the clutch it while running, however, the engine ran under ten minutes one time, and only a few minutes a couple of other times.
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That’s long enough to cook a bearing. I suggest another rebuild before a bearing seizes to the shaft and causes even more damage.
 
IMO, Open it up and assess damages. Adding lube and rolling now isn't going to repair anything already compromised. It may even cause further damage.
 
Well I sure hope you didn't fry anything! As mentioned starting the motor in gear is not putting any particular stress on the transmission but it is hard on the thrust bearing the way I understand it. I would also do a suggested fill the transmission up put the car up on blocks or jacks and begin to work the transmission to all gears gently. See what you end up with good luck.
 
Thanks guys. I think I understand it all a lot more which helps. The guy that rebuilt it is gonna take a look at it and I guess we'll see how she goes. Thanks for the input!
 
Daves69 said:
IMO, Open it up and assess damages. Adding lube and rolling now isn't going to repair anything already compromised. It may even cause further damage.
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Yep, it's probably toast.
 
Shmaako said:
Thanks guys. I think I understand it all a lot more which helps. The guy that rebuilt it is gonna take a look at it and I guess we'll see how she goes. Thanks for the input!
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Let us know how it turns out.
 
Shmaako said:
That does make sense ya. I was not holding the clutch it while running, however, the engine ran under ten minutes one time, and only a few minutes a couple of other times.
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dukeboy_318 said:
That’s long enough to cook a bearing. I suggest another rebuild before a bearing seizes to the shaft and causes even more damage.
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Daves69 said:
IMO, Open it up and assess damages. Adding lube and rolling now isn't going to repair anything already compromised. It may even cause further damage.
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toolmanmike said:
Yep, it's probably toast.
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Definitely needs to be opened up and inspected. That’s not a super long run time though. If it was assembled 100% dry it’s long enough that it could be cooked. If it was assembled with some assembly lube or if the bearings were soaked first it might not have been long enough to burn that off. Just gonna depend on the assembly practices of the shop and your brand of luck.

But an inspection no matter what.
 
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