Diagnosing a front end wiggle at 35mph

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Dana67Dart

Dana67Dart

The parts you don't add don't cause you no trouble
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67 Dart Convertible, 273, auto, OE KH front disk, manual steering and brakes.

Tires are 3 years old, Cooper Cobra 205/70R14 on stock steel 5.5x14 wheels

Sway bar end link bushings replaced in the last 3 years

Upper ball joints and idler replaced in the last 3 years, bearings feel normal, tie rod ends seem tight and are surface rust free (may be relatively new) steering gear has minimal play (5-10 deg before resistance either direction sitting still. Like less that 11:30 to 00:30 at most)

The lower ball joints have been replaced in the past 54 years don't know when. Doubt the lower pivot, strut rod bushings or upper control arm bushings have ever been replaced (319,000 miles)

on the interstate car drives straight as an arrow with only the need for minor corrections from time to time to keep it going straight.

Tires only have about 2000 miles on them so no wear signs.

The wiggle feels like it is coming from the drivers side, but who knows. When the wiggle is most pronounced it feels like the front left is lifting and falling

There is a clunk on the pass side when applying and releasing the brake.
starting at 3:14 on Pass Side Video

Pass Side
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LCnuHBzjoNu9Reae9

Drivers Side
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tLEoVy2bTJ3wQjZn6

One thing I noticed is the strut rod bushings seemed to be loose (as expected for 319,000 mile) but I don't now if it is a normal amount of movement

On the video I could not see anything pass side or drivers side that I could say shows the wiggle.

Other than a complete front end rebuild (which i know it needs) any thoughts on the wiggle?

On the clunk? ( I'm thinking upper control arm bushings based on the video)
 
First off, does it wiggle the steering wheel or can you just feel it?
 
Quick guesses off the top of my head, if the car sits alot flat spots in tires, they work their way out after driving a few miles. Shift belt in tire, I know they are new but still possible. Bent rim,are they steel wheels? Other than that, do a front end shakedown, and check everything, even tire air pressure, Dont skip over things like actually looking at the tires because they are new etc.
 
Watching the video's I don't know if it is a optical illusion but it looks like the drivers side upper ball joint has a lot of up & down movement to it , the spindle moves and the upper control arm don't.
 
Worn strut rod bushings will cause lower control arm movement when applying the brakes.
could be the clunk your hearing, it was on my 67.
 
Dartswinger70 said:
, if the car sits alot flat spots in tires, they work their way out after driving a few miles
Click to expand...
I drive the car 1 to 2 times a week.

Dartswinger70 said:
Bent rim,are they steel wheels
Click to expand...
Rims were checked when tires were put on. OEM steel.
Dartswinger70 said:
Other than that, do a front end shakedown, and check everything, even tire air pressure, Dont skip over things like actually looking at the tires because they are new etc
Click to expand...

One of these days I'll get the front up on stands release the pressure off the tortion bars and shake the crap out of things to see how loose everything ready is.
 
brian6pac said:
Watching the video's I don't know if it is a optical illusion but it looks like the drivers side upper ball joint has a lot of up & down movement to it , the spindle moves and the upper control arm don't
Click to expand...
I'll look for that, unless the upper ball joints came out of the control arm or the joints are coming apart ( less than 3 years, 2000 miles old) I'm assuming it's optical illusion
 
Ok, just to bevclearvi say "shakedown" I mean do the checks, not necessarily "shake " things. But yes, you'd unload the torsion bar tension and see if ball joints have radial and axial play. Basically side to side and up and down, then tie rods, idler arm, Pittman arm, wheel bearings, strut rods and bushings, then as said tires,wheels, basically every possible thing, run over it with a fine toothedccomb as they say
 
Dartswinger70 said:
Ok, just to bevclearvi say "shakedown" I mean do the checks, not necessarily "shake " things. But yes, you'd unload the torsion bar tension and see if ball joints have radial and axial play. Basically side to side and up and down, then tie rods, idler arm, Pittman arm, wheel bearings, strut rods and bushings, then as said tires,wheels, basically every possible thing, run over it with a fine toothedccomb as they say
Click to expand...
I have no idea what you mean about "unloading the torsion bar to check things."
The way you check your lower ball joints is to position a jack under the lower control arm as close as you can to the outside end of the LCA. You jack up the LCA until the tire is off the ground about 3/4". Take a pry bar and try to lift that tire, while watching the lower ball joint stud. I believe the FSM allows 1/16", but that is about double what it should be.
You can shake the tires back & forth, up and down while looking for excess slop in all the connections, like tie rod ends, wheel bearings, etc. Some of the bushings can be visually inspected for cracking/ separation. Check for cracked welds, cracked UCA ears on frame, cracked strut rod anchor on K-frame, etc
 
Dana67Dart said:
Whole car shakes. Under 35 no issue over 35 no issue
Click to expand...
A steering wheel shake is front tires. A shake in your rear is a rear tire or something else. Have you done any mechanical mods lately?
 
Hey just throwing this out there if you feel it in the whole car. ....how bout u joint ?
 
beerestoration2015-2016 133.JPG
 
Figure that's what he's got, rotted 50+ year old LCA bushings, especially with the stated mileage...
 
dadsbee said:
Figure that's what he's got, rotted 50+ year old LCA bushings, especially with the stated mileage...
Click to expand...
Worn bushings will make it drive funny but not usually make a wobble feel. A tire or vibration will though.
 
Dana67Dart said:
67 Dart Convertible, 273, auto, OE KH front disk, manual steering and brakes.

Tires are 3 years old, Cooper Cobra 205/70R14 on stock steel 5.5x14 wheels

Sway bar end link bushings replaced in the last 3 years

Upper ball joints and idler replaced in the last 3 years, bearings feel normal, tie rod ends seem tight and are surface rust free (may be relatively new) steering gear has minimal play (5-10 deg before resistance either direction sitting still. Like less that 11:30 to 00:30 at most)

The lower ball joints have been replaced in the past 54 years don't know when. Doubt the lower pivot, strut rod bushings or upper control arm bushings have ever been replaced (319,000 miles)

on the interstate car drives straight as an arrow with only the need for minor corrections from time to time to keep it going straight.

Tires only have about 2000 miles on them so no wear signs.

The wiggle feels like it is coming from the drivers side, but who knows. When the wiggle is most pronounced it feels like the front left is lifting and falling

There is a clunk on the pass side when applying and releasing the brake.
starting at 3:14 on Pass Side Video

Pass Side
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LCnuHBzjoNu9Reae9

Drivers Side
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tLEoVy2bTJ3wQjZn6

One thing I noticed is the strut rod bushings seemed to be loose (as expected for 319,000 mile) but I don't now if it is a normal amount of movement

On the video I could not see anything pass side or drivers side that I could say shows the wiggle.

Other than a complete front end rebuild (which i know it needs) any thoughts on the wiggle?

On the clunk? ( I'm thinking upper control arm bushings based on the video)
Click to expand...
Take the damn thing to a alignment shop and have it checked out. A sharp tech, a test drive, and a on hoist inspection will find the problem.
 
rustycowll69 said:
Check for cracked welds, cracked UCA ears on frame, cracked strut rod anchor on K-frame, etc
Click to expand...
One side looks like it was welded at some time. The car was my dad's daily driver. So if it broke he fixed it.
 
Biff said:
Hey just throwing this out there if you feel it in the whole car. ....how bout u joint
Click to expand...
They are tight.
Way back in the day we had a 63 econoline van, it had a solid front axle. The tierod ends were VERY warn. While driving it on the fwy if you hit a bump at just the right angle the she from end would shimmy and shake, a firm press on the brake and it would stop.

That's king of what it feels like.

The best description is that it feels like the driver's side front is rising and falling in a shimmy, or wiggle
 
Clunk sounds like a strut rod bushing or lack of it. I had a cracked steering box mount on my K and it would sent it into convulsions at about 15 mph. if you can power through it, Id say tire too...maybe a thrown weight..a big one!
 
pishta said:
maybe a thrown weight..a big one
Click to expand...
That will be checked when I rotate the tires.
Plus I'll do a good inspection of the supports etc.

My reason for unloading the torsion bars is to see the play in the lower control arm pin. my guess is it looks like the one dadsbee posted.

I'll do a play in the lower ball joint test as well.

Thanks all
 
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